A comforting quote..........................

[Blonde Girl]

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What do you call the person who graduated last in their medical school?? Doctor

What do you call the person who graduated last in their law school?? Unemployed

 

[Future Doc B]

What do you call the person who graduated last in their law school?? Unemployed

Or Senator/Congressman/Congresswoman

 

[MS05']

Or Senator/Congressman/Congresswoman

OR become one of these outstanding citizens (take from a real criminal defense law sign in my hometown);

"New York - Criminal Law Lawyers, Attorneys and Law Firms who help advise and defend people arrested and charged with a state or local crime such as DUI or DWI, hit and run, possession or sale of illegal drugs, manslaughter, murder, assault, battery, probation violations, kidnapping, burglary, forgery, shoplifting, extortion, theft, fraud, embezzlement, rape and other sex crimes, and domestic violence.

They work to reduce or dismiss charges or get a plea bargain with the prosecutor such as the District Attorney or State`s Attorney, and judge to obtain a diversion, automatic conditional discharge, alternative sentencing, plea-bargain, and if not handle the trial before judge or jury and any appeal, probation and parole proceedings."


Gotta love the lawyers and all their great work like getting (see above) murders, rapists, drug dealers, kidnappers, burglars, extortionists and those who commit sex crimes off the hook!!!

I'd gladly be the last in my class at med school treating disease and helping people (or simply not being a drag on society) than spend a day doing any of the above as the valedictorian at Yale law 😳

 

[Dire Straits]

What do you call the person who graduated last in their medical school?? Doctor

that joke is like 50 years old. the new version is:
what do you call the person who graduated last in their medical school?
a high malpractice risk

 

[phllystyl]

I knew someone was going there... was only a matter of time.

*sits back and makes some popcorn*

 

[I-eye]

What do you call the person who graduated last in their medical school?? Doctor

What do you call the person who graduated last in their law school?? Unemployed

Depends which law school...graduate last from a top ten and you can still make good $ at a big firm (the work may suck, but its a job), graduate first at a bottom tier and may still not get a decent job.

BTW--99.9% of Yale lawyers would not do any of the above advertised, and if they did they would not advertise it...

 

[kas23]

Depends which law school...graduate last from a top ten and you can still make good $ at a big firm (the work may suck, but its a job), graduate first at a bottom tier and may still not get a decent job.

BTW--99.9% of Yale lawyers would not do any of the above advertised, and if they did they would not advertise it...

Actually there was a thread on this forum a couple of months ago about how Affirmative Action actually hurts minorities. The thread referenced an article written by a very well respected proponent of AA who did research and found that the students who got the best grades (no matter the school), got the best jobs. This article actually argued that minorities would best be fit at schools that fit their competitiveness, then they would get better grades, thus better jobs upon graduation. He felt that letting minorities into the top schools only hurt them, because they ended up getting worse grades and thus, worse jobs.

I did not mean to turn this into an AA thread by any means. Don't let it turn into one. I was just bored.

In regards to the Yale lawyers; what, are smarter people more ethical? Don't kid yourself. I don't care if a lawyer graduated from the Vatican's School of Law, I still wouldn't put anything past them.

 

[cytoskelement]

well...

one could also say: what do you call the person who graduates last in their med school class...


um, yeah. UN-matched in DERM, ENT, ORTHO, URO, GAS, or any other competitive residency. Have fun in primary care at (insert local "area") community program.

 

[phllystyl]

Looks like we're up to 2 now...

keep em comin' guys!!!!

*munch munch munch*

 

[kas23]

Looks like we're up to 2 now...

keep em comin' guys!!!!

*munch munch munch*

Don't say I never threw you a bone.

You knew when this thread started, nothing of any educational/professional/intellectual value was going to come of it.

 

[phllystyl]

You're right, Im just surprised only the tool count is only up to 2 so far (you are not amongst them)

 

[design]

Actually there was a thread on this forum a couple of months ago about how Affirmative Action actually hurts minorities. The thread referenced an article written by a very well respected proponent of AA who did research and found that the students who got the best grades (no matter the school), got the best jobs. This article actually argued that minorities would best be fit at schools that fit their competitiveness, then they would get better grades, thus better jobs upon graduation. He felt that letting minorities into the top schools only hurt them, because they ended up getting worse grades and thus, worse jobs.

I did not mean to turn this into an AA thread by any means. Don't let it turn into one. I was just bored.

In regards to the Yale lawyers; what, are smarter people more ethical? Don't kid yourself. I don't care if a lawyer graduated from the Vatican's School of Law, I still wouldn't put anything past them.

Anyone would do better at a school that best their level of competiveness. Being AA is not an automatic pass for getting into a competitive school. They to need to have excellent grades and test scores like anyone else.
If a AA is at a top school it is because he/she earn that spot.

 

[cytoskelement]

ratchet, ratchet... hammer, hammer.

proud of it... just preachin' the truth.

 

[phllystyl]

ratchet, ratchet... hammer, hammer.

proud of it... just preachin' the truth.

get over yourself.

 

[timtye78]

well...

one could also say: what do you call the person who graduates last in their med school class...


um, yeah. UN-matched in DERM, ENT, ORTHO, URO, GAS, or any other competitive residency. Have fun in primary care at (insert local "area") community program.

I had to notice that you are a second-year med student. In response to your sweeping statement, I would have to comment that 'even at DO school' (and I say with a smirk) your statement is incorrect. Of course, I cannot speak for your school 😀

 

[cytoskelement]

get over yourself.

why such hostility?

first off - i probably will go into primary care. so if my comments poke fun at anyone, it's me.

secondly, i was pointing out the inevitable fact that the person who graduates last in their class will not be competitive at all. that means that they were successful at ZERO in school except for possibly the boards. geez.

so, call me a tool. the last time i checked - this was the gen. res. issues forum - not the lounge. i look here for decent info - not a joke about future docs and lawyers occupational status. but since a joke was posted, might as well play along.

hope that popcorn burns the crap out of your mouth. 👍

 

[cytoskelement]

I had to notice that you are a second-year med student. In response to your sweeping statement, I would have to comment that 'even at DO school' (and I say with a smirk) your statement is incorrect. Of course, I cannot speak for your school 😀

i agree... it was a sweeping statement (smirk noted). but in all honesty, if you rank #150 out of 150 - that means you were neither successful in basic sciences or in the wards. so, how do you explain that to a program director?
even if you are a "people person", rocked the boards, and did research, etc, it seems like you wouldn't have much of a selling point. not to say that its impossible, just unlikely in my opinion (second year bows head to alpha).

btw, this has nothing to do with MD vs DO. as far as that goes, we all get the same training (except you guys get the bonus of OMM).

 

[phllystyl]

completing the grueling 4 years that is medical school, regardless of class rank or relative grades is a success story in and of itself that is worthy of praise and should be commended.

I don't care what field you are going into. Doesn't give you the right to be condescending.

 

[cytoskelement]

completing the grueling 4 years that is medical school, regardless of class rank or relative grades is a success story in and of itself that is worthy of praise and should be commended.

I don't care what field you are going into. Doesn't give you the right to be condescending.

true. i was a little over the top. my apologies.

 

[I-eye]

Not saying they are ethically superior, just that they don't have to do these things to make $.

Never saw the study, so I can't comment. But from experience I can tell you that in law it is not necessarily that way.

Best of luck to all.

Actually there was a thread on this forum a couple of months ago about how Affirmative Action actually hurts minorities. The thread referenced an article written by a very well respected proponent of AA who did research and found that the students who got the best grades (no matter the school), got the best jobs. This article actually argued that minorities would best be fit at schools that fit their competitiveness, then they would get better grades, thus better jobs upon graduation. He felt that letting minorities into the top schools only hurt them, because they ended up getting worse grades and thus, worse jobs.

I did not mean to turn this into an AA thread by any means. Don't let it turn into one. I was just bored.

In regards to the Yale lawyers; what, are smarter people more ethical? Don't kid yourself. I don't care if a lawyer graduated from the Vatican's School of Law, I still wouldn't put anything past them.

 

[Idiopathic]

completing the grueling 4 years that is medical school, regardless of class rank or relative grades is a success story in and of itself that is worthy of praise and should be commended.

I don't care what field you are going into. Doesn't give you the right to be condescending.

Is it a success if everybody who matriculates graduates? Should med schools have a measureable attrition rate? (several dont)

 

[kas23]

Never saw the study, so I can't comment. But from experience I can tell you that in law it is not necessarily that way.

"Second, and related, Sander says that blacks at better schools, but with poor grades, get worse jobs than they would if they were at lesser schools and had better grades. In other words, Sander argues, at all but the most elite schools, grades matter more than the school from which one graduates for black law job applicants.

The upside of attending a better school is more than outweighed - in terms of employment options - by the downside of getting weak grades at that school, compared to the better grades that could have been obtained at a less competitive school.

This nonobvious conclusion might make some sense. Legal employers do like to hire from the top, or at least the top half, of almost any law school class. A high-performing student at a second-tier school may look more attractive than a student with a mediocre record from a top school. And virtually no one is eager to hire C and D students, from even the very best school.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/01/07/amar.affirmative.action/index.html

 

[phllystyl]

Is it a success if everybody who matriculates graduates? Should med schools have a measureable attrition rate? (several dont)

Why shouldn't it be a success? If a standardized examination system is in place, why does one need proof of people not surviving to justify the level of their education?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I feel like I've seen this joke in like three different forums now... all posted by Blonde Girl herself. 😛

 

[kas23]

I feel like I've seen this joke in like three different forums now... all posted by Blonde Girl herself. 😛

Are they garnering the same type of special lovin' as it is here?

 

[I-eye]

I do agree with what you posted (not necessarily the race aspect, I'll leave that to somebody else and another thread). However, as the article indicated this tread applies "at all but the most elite schools." In law, that is generally considered the top 10 (there are actually 14 schools that rotate in and out of that group, so maybe top 14). At those schools the curve is very high, typically between 'B' and 'A-'. The students are distributed fairly evenly around the curve, and this produces very few grades in the 'A' to 'A+' range and very few grades in the 'C+' range and lower, so even those towards the bottom of the class usually don't have a significant # of 'Cs' on their transcripts. The jobs open to these graduates offer between 2 and 3 times the salary and/or prestige of what is being offered to the top of the class students at lower tiered schools.

I can tell you from experience that many employers don't even look at a transcript before they interview students from top 10 schools. Hiring is based primarily on personality and interview skills.

However, outside the top law schools (top 10, 14, whatever), I think what you posted is correct. Most employers see very little difference between a tier 2 and 3 school (or even lower tier 1 for that matter). And, students from these schools usually stay in the same region of the country as the law school from which they graduated because their law schools don't open doors to the national market.

Part of this problem is the result of too many law schools. I have always thought that a well-trained poodle could get into a law school, but that getting into an elite law school is on par (and maybe harder in some instances) than getting into a top graduate school in other disciplines (medicine, business, PhD). On the other hand, getting into a medical school is tougher, but there might not be a huge difference between an applicant only accepted at a middle tier med school and one accepted to an elite med school. In addition, because med students have to take the boards while in school, residency programs have more #s to compare, thereby eliminating some of the prestige factor associated with attending a top med school.

The bar exam is taken after law school and is only pass/fail in most states. I have never heard of an employer requesting bar grades. The only thing that is important is a pass.

I know this is a long post to make a nearly meaningless point, but I am bored...

"Second, and related, Sander says that blacks at better schools, but with poor grades, get worse jobs than they would if they were at lesser schools and had better grades. In other words, Sander argues, at all but the most elite schools, grades matter more than the school from which one graduates for black law job applicants.

The upside of attending a better school is more than outweighed - in terms of employment options - by the downside of getting weak grades at that school, compared to the better grades that could have been obtained at a less competitive school.

This nonobvious conclusion might make some sense. Legal employers do like to hire from the top, or at least the top half, of almost any law school class. A high-performing student at a second-tier school may look more attractive than a student with a mediocre record from a top school. And virtually no one is eager to hire C and D students, from even the very best school.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/01/07/amar.affirmative.action/index.html

 

[kas23]

I do agree with what you posted (not necessarily the race aspect, I'll leave that to somebody else and another thread). However, as the article indicated this tread applies "at all but the most elite schools." In law, that is generally considered the top 10 (there are actually 14 schools that rotate in and out of that group, so maybe top 14). At those schools the curve is very high, typically between 'B' and 'A-'. The students are distributed fairly evenly around the curve, and this produces very few grades in the 'A' to 'A+' range and very few grades in the 'C+' range and lower, so even those towards the bottom of the class usually don't have a significant # of 'Cs' on their transcripts. The jobs open to these graduates offer between 2 and 3 times the salary and/or prestige of what is being offered to the top of the class students at lower tiered schools.

I can tell you from experience that many employers don't even look at a transcript before they interview students from top 10 schools. Hiring is based primarily on personality and interview skills.

However, outside the top law schools (top 10, 14, whatever), I think what you posted is correct. Most employers see very little difference between a tier 2 and 3 school (or even lower tier 1 for that matter). And, students from these schools usually stay in the same region of the country as the law school from which they graduated because their law schools don't open doors to the national market.

Part of this problem is the result of too many law schools. I have always thought that a well-trained poodle could get into a law school, but that getting into an elite law school is on par (and maybe harder in some instances) than getting into a top graduate school in other disciplines (medicine, business, PhD). On the other hand, getting into a medical school is tougher, but there might not be a huge difference between an applicant only accepted at a middle tier med school and one accepted to an elite med school. In addition, because med students have to take the boards while in school, residency programs have more #s to compare, thereby eliminating some of the prestige factor associated with attending a top med school.

The bar exam is taken after law school and is only pass/fail in most states. I have never heard of an employer requesting bar grades. The only thing that is important is a pass.

I know this is a long post to make a nearly meaningless point, but I am bored...

You made some interesting points, including the one about the poodle. Does anyone know what kind of job a poodle would get upon completion of law school? Or, does it depend on its grades? Or, do poodles have lower bar scores and we shoud really be sending our border collies?

 

[I-eye]

You made some interesting points, including the one about the poodle. Does anyone know what kind of job a poodle would get upon completion of law school? Or, does it depend on its grades? Or, do poodles have lower bar scores and we shoud really be sending our border collies?

A poodle could get in, but to get through and pass the bar, it would probably take at least a Border Collie. On second thought, the President could not get into law school (University of Texas dinged him), so it might take a German Shepherd.