Academic Neurology - Faculty Post-Residency

[medsRus]

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Is it common for doctors to secure a faculty position in general neurology immediately after an adult neuro residency (without further training)? Are there some programs that have more of these? Thanks! 😳

 

[neurologist]

Most academic centers want subspecialty fellowship training.

That being said, you could probably try to "sell" yourself to them as a generalist, if that's what you really want to do (i.e., commit yourself to no subspecialty practice).

From their point of view, however, they'd probably be concerned that you'd leave to go do a fellowship after a year or two.

 

[HarveyCushing]

Most academic centers want subspecialty fellowship training.

That being said, you could probably try to "sell" yourself to them as a generalist, if that's what you really want to do (i.e., commit yourself to no subspecialty practice).

From their point of view, however, they'd probably be concerned that you'd leave to go do a fellowship after a year or two.

In order to be competitive for a K award grant, don't you basically have to do a fellowship of some kind? I don't see why an academic center would take a "general" neurologist when they have others who have fellowship training and grant support. Seems like research money matters the most when trying to get an academic position.

 

[medsRus]

In order to be competitive for a K award grant, don't you basically have to do a fellowship of some kind? I don't see why an academic center would take a "general" neurologist when they have others who have fellowship training and grant support. Seems like research money matters the most when trying to get an academic position.

Perhaps, post-graduate qualifications (i.e. MS/MPH/PhD) make such docs competitive, even without fellowships.

 

[Fencer]

There are situations where departments hire a general neurologist without subspecialty training. For example, to service a satellite location that is not as desirable (i.e.: rural, bad place in the city, etc.). Most often, those individuals will have a difficult time succeeding in academia (i.e.: promotion in clinical track, etc.).

What makes you desirable in academia is your "niche". Are you the expert in the city/region on X (with X being hemorrhagic stroke, Pick's disease, neuroradiology of epilepsy, etc.)? Only when you demonstrate national prominence in your area of expertise, you will have the qualifications for promotion. This is more important if you are in tenure-track, where a body of publications on a topic creates your expertise in a given niche.

 

[HarveyCushing]

Perhaps, post-graduate qualifications (i.e. MS/MPH/PhD) make such docs competitive, even without fellowships.

I just talked to my mentor about this topic the other week as I was curious to get his opinion. He works at a large university medical center based in the midwest and is also the director of one of the neurology fellowship programs. He told me that when they are looking for new faculty they (institution/department) won't even look at any one who does not have fellowship training (this obviously is totally institutionally dependent, so I'm not sure of other institutions policies). Most of the time they make offers to their current fellows before even looking outside the institution to fill the position. He also said that research experience and funding are important aspects when looking for new faculty. He specifically mentioned that in a tough economy, if an applicant for a faculty position has grant funding already, it makes it that much easier for them to find a position. Those without funding, not so much. Ultimately you don't need to do a fellowship to get an academic position. However it will make it that much easier. Ask current residents how much extra time they have available to get the needed research experience to submit and successfully acquire grant money before applying for an academic position. It isn't impossible, but it is very difficult. Fellowships give you the added mentoring, training, and time to do research in preparation for academic medicine. A MS/MPH/PhD can't do that in and of themselves imho.

I would also recommend looking at the faculty listings at various academic programs and see how many are fellowship trained vs. not. Also look at younger faculty across institutions to see if this answers your questions.

 

[medsRus]

I just talked to my mentor about this topic the other week as I was curious to get his opinion. He works at a large university medical center based in the midwest and is also the director of one of the neurology fellowship programs. He told me that when they are looking for new faculty they (institution/department) won't even look at any one who does not have fellowship training (this obviously is totally institutionally dependent, so I'm not sure of other institutions policies). Most of the time they make offers to their current fellows before even looking outside the institution to fill the position. He also said that research experience and funding are important aspects when looking for new faculty. He specifically mentioned that in a tough economy, if an applicant for a faculty position has grant funding already, it makes it that much easier for them to find a position. Those without funding, not so much. Ultimately you don't need to do a fellowship to get an academic position. However it will make it that much easier. Ask current residents how much extra time they have available to get the needed research experience to submit and successfully acquire grant money before applying for an academic position. It isn't impossible, but it is very difficult. Fellowships give you the added mentoring, training, and time to do research in preparation for academic medicine. A MS/MPH/PhD can't do that in and of themselves imho.

I would also recommend looking at the faculty listings at various academic programs and see how many are fellowship trained vs. not. Also look at younger faculty across institutions to see if this answers your questions.

Thanks for the info. Are most faculty hired right after fellowship at the assistant professor or instructor level?

 

[HarveyCushing]

Thanks for the info. Are most faculty hired right after fellowship at the assistant professor or instructor level?

To be completely honest I am not 100% sure, but that sounds correct.

On another note, if you look at the thread on salary I posted a link to another thread that talked about salary for academic neurology. I think that was something you were looking for?

 

[Vader]

On a related note, how open are fellowship programs/neuro departments to doing a combined/customized fellowship?

Which fellowships are formalized ACGME accredited vs. less formalized?

Would it be possible to do one of the less formalized fellowships and have significant research time to get a K and make the transition to a tenure-track faculty position?

 

[MDPain]

On a related note, how open are fellowship programs/neuro departments to doing a combined/customized fellowship?

Which fellowships are formalized ACGME accredited vs. less formalized?

Would it be possible to do one of the less formalized fellowships and have significant research time to get a K and make the transition to a tenure-track faculty position?

One of our current fellows is doing a non-ACGME accredited fellowship and concurrently applying for grants to supplement her appointment at our institution. Granted, she has several years of research/clinical experience under her belt, but may be an opportunity for you to focus some time during fellowship to get some funding sources.

 

[Amos]

I would imagine that some fellowships are more amenable to research than others.

I haven't spent much time researching this, but on the surface it seems like subspecialties such as Neuro IR or Neuro ICU would have a lengthy training period and time-consuming clinical load, whereas something like sleep medicine or behavioral neurology might be a quicker path to securing funding.