Canadian at Non Accredited school VIRMP chances?

[yan.banan99]

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hiii yall im a final year vet student at a non accredited school (it is on the AVMA list though).

I am a Canadian & have most of my experience in North American clinics. I am putting my hat in the ring for VIRMP Small Animal Rotating Internships. There is only a handful I’m eligible for because I haven’t done the NAVLE yet. I am in the process of the PAVE program though.

My question is, what are my chances at scoring an internship? All my references are Canadian docs, plus a specialist, my grades are average, and I wrote a strong personal statement (I think).

Let me know if you have any experiences 🙁

 

[pp9]

hiii yall im a final year vet student at a non accredited school (it is on the AVMA list though).

I am a Canadian & have most of my experience in North American clinics. I am putting my hat in the ring for VIRMP Small Animal Rotating Internships. There is only a handful I’m eligible for because I haven’t done the NAVLE yet. I am in the process of the PAVE program though.

My question is, what are my chances at scoring an internship? All my references are Canadian docs, plus a specialist, my grades are average, and I wrote a strong personal statement (I think).

Let me know if you have any experiences 🙁

What programs specifically? Are you shooting for US programs only?

Not being able to get a license will make things harder, even if a program says they’d consider you (it does depend on the program, though). If you are looking at US programs, the fact that you’ll need a visa is another layer of difficulty and some programs just aren’t willing to deal with that right now. It might be worth communicating with the few programs you think you’re eligible at and verifying that they’d actually consider you…

 

[JaynaAli]

What programs specifically? Are you shooting for US programs only?

Not being able to get a license will make things harder, even if a program says they’d consider you (it does depend on the program, though). If you are looking at US programs, the fact that you’ll need a visa is another layer of difficulty and some programs just aren’t willing to deal with that right now. It might be worth communicating with the few programs you think you’re eligible at and verifying that they’d actually consider you…

I think it’s easier for Canadians in the US than for other countries. I haven’t been a resident in a while, but I was in training when my university stopped taking “international” residents because of the timeline and cost associated with visa sponsorship and prevailing wage rules, but they still took Canadians. Not sure of the details on why or if that’s still true and this is good advice for most international applicants, but I’m pretty sure than being Canadian opens up a lot more doors for OP. The VIRMP listings nowadays pretty clearly show what the places can/will accept citizenship wise.

There are some academic programs that do allow people to get a teaching type license that doesn’t require NAVLE and stuff. I know there was at least one resident at my institution in 2017-2019ish who was Dutch and was working on NAVLE and her PAVE/ECFVG while she was a resident, so it is possible. Private practice institutions are probably not going to be an option because those will usually require full licensure, but both the state I went to vet school in and where I did my residency had special academia-associated licenses you could get if you were ONLY working at the vet school.

The unaccredited school/no NAVLE yet part may make programs a little nervous just because it’s harder to assess your knowledge base, but hopefully strong grades and (perhaps most importantly) strong letters of rec saying you know what you’re doing will probably help a lot.

 

[yan.banan99]

I think it’s easier for Canadians in the US than for other countries. I haven’t been a resident in a while, but I was in training when my university stopped taking “international” residents because of the timeline and cost associated with visa sponsorship and prevailing wage rules, but they still took Canadians. Not sure of the details on why or if that’s still true and this is good advice for most international applicants, but I’m pretty sure than being Canadian opens up a lot more doors for OP. The VIRMP listings nowadays pretty clearly show what the places can/will accept citizenship wise.

There are some academic programs that do allow people to get a teaching type license that doesn’t require NAVLE and stuff. I know there was at least one resident at my institution in 2017-2019ish who was Dutch and was working on NAVLE and her PAVE/ECFVG while she was a resident, so it is possible. Private practice institutions are probably not going to be an option because those will usually require full licensure, but both the state I went to vet school in and where I did my residency had special academia-associated licenses you could get if you were ONLY working at the vet school.

The unaccredited school/no NAVLE yet part may make programs a little nervous just because it’s harder to assess your knowledge base, but hopefully strong grades and (perhaps most importantly) strong letters of rec saying you know what you’re doing will probably help a lot.

heyyyaa thanks for the reply!! yeaa as a Canadian they dont need to sponsor me there is a much easier process, which is beneficial for me for sure 🫶🏼 Also I’m only applying to state schools because they would be the only ones who could accept me without full licensure yet. I appreciate the reply & I’m trying my best to see 🙏🏻

 

[VIN-Foundation]

Canadians and Mexicans are eligible for a TN visa, allowing them to work in the US in specific professional occupations under the United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement (USMCA; formerly called NAFTA). These are easier, faster and cheaper than H-1B visas, so programs that won't accept candidates needing an H-1B sometimes will take those needing a TN.

NAVLE /PAVE is only an issue for licensing. Essentially all private practice programs require a license. Many of the academic programs don't require a license or their state has alternate licensing pathways for veterinarians working at a university.

You need to check both visa and license requirements for any program you apply to. It is the responsibility of the applicant to ensure that they meet the requirements of the program to which they are applying.

 

[yan.banan99]

Canadians and Mexicans are eligible for a TN visa, allowing them to work in the US in specific professional occupations under the United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement (USMCA; formerly called NAFTA). These are easier, faster and cheaper than H-1B visas, so programs that won't accept candidates needing an H-1B sometimes will take those needing a TN.

NAVLE /PAVE is only an issue for licensing. Essentially all private practice programs require a license. Many of the academic programs don't require a license or their state has alternate licensing pathways for veterinarians working at a university.

You need to check both visa and license requirements for any program you apply to. It is the responsibility of the applicant to ensure that they meet the requirements of the program to which they are applying.

Yeaaa I more wanted to know if anyone has an experience getting in without a license as a foreign degree holder like me? I know the TN visa makes my life so much easier & I’m only applying to state hospitals. But thanks 🙂

 

[pp9]

Yeaaa I more wanted to know if anyone has an experience getting in without a license as a foreign degree holder like me? I know the TN visa makes my life so much easier & I’m only applying to state hospitals. But thanks 🙂

Yes, it has happened before although it's really not that common. We don't have a lot of users from non-accredited schools on SDN though, so I'm not sure you'll get any specific info or personal experiences.

And to reiterate, I'd still reach out to the few programs you qualify for. Just because they don't outright disqualify an applicant in your situation does not mean they don't have 'strong preferences.' You're competing against a large pool of applicants that don't need to clear any extra hurdles and programs are aware of that.

 

[yan.banan99]

Yes, it has happened before although it's really not that common. We don't have a lot of users from non-accredited schools on SDN though, so I'm not sure you'll get any specific info or personal experiences.

And to reiterate, I'd still reach out to the few programs you qualify for. Just because they don't outright disqualify an applicant in your situation does not mean they don't have 'strong preferences.' You're competing against a large pool of applicants that don't need to clear any extra hurdles and programs are aware of that.

Hey you mind if I dm you? I just want to know what you mean, like email them to ask if they accept foreign students, or to tell them that I'm applying & I am interested? Thanks for your reply!!

 

[pp9]

Hey you mind if I dm you? I just want to know what you mean, like email them to ask if they accept foreign students, or to tell them that I'm applying & I am interested? Thanks for your reply!!

You can, but I mean just verifying under what means they are fully open to considering you, similar to what @VIN-Foundation said. Do you need an alternative license/does that have to be squared away before you start, what happens if you have visa issues, will you be limited in any way (can't draw up/dispense controlled drugs, can't practice independently, etc), etc. If you aren't able to be present and ready to go on day one from possible visa/licensing issues, are they going to give you an extension or are you going to be told you can't start and have lost your spot? Are they going to say something like 'We consider all applicants, but typically only rank foreign graduates if they are exceptional applicants.' Things like that.

It also looks like you're only eligible for four programs (?) which really are not good odds considering that they are all academic. Those are usually competitive even for those that are eligible for US licensing, so just make sure your application is outstanding.

 

[yan.banan99]

You can, but I mean just verifying under what means they are fully open to considering you, similar to what @VIN-Foundation said. Do you need an alternative license/does that have to be squared away before you start, what happens if you have visa issues, will you be limited in any way (can't draw up/dispense controlled drugs, can't practice independently, etc), etc. If you aren't able to be present and ready to go on day one from possible visa/licensing issues, are they going to give you an extension or are you going to be told you can't start and have lost your spot? Are they going to say something like 'We consider all applicants, but typically only rank foreign graduates if they are exceptional applicants.' Things like that.

It also looks like you're only eligible for four programs (?) which really are not good odds considering that they are all academic. Those are usually competitive even for those that are eligible for US licensing, so just make sure your application is outstanding.

I sent them all an email to see what they say! I am eligible to at least 10 which I applied to, I don't know what you were looking at. There are a handful of states that can give you a faculty license without having to have finished the NAVLE. But thank you for your response 🙂

 

[pp9]

I sent them all an email to see what they say! I am eligible to at least 10 which I applied to, I don't know what you were looking at. There are a handful of states that can give you a faculty license without having to have finished the NAVLE. But thank you for your response 🙂

Just went to VIRMP and used the filters for SA rotating, no state license (faculty/umbrella license =/= state license in this context), NAVLE not required, and grads of non-accredited schools . Looking again, you'd be eligible for 4 under those filters (two are at UF, and Purdue doesn't take Canadian citizens apparently), but obvi I don't know all of your details so go with whatever you find to make sense and be accurate

ETA: Also an example of what I'm talking about. This is on Cornell's listing: "Applicants with credentials from both foreign and American colleges of veterinary medicine are welcome to apply. Preference is generally given to applicants from AVMA accredited veterinary colleges."

I will also add that I think these listings can be confusing/misleading. Some programs seem to check 'yes' next to 'accepts grads of non-accredited schools' then go on to say 'a list of accredited or recognized schools can be found here.' Maybe that's automatically included by VIRMP, but looking at UF specifically I'm left wondering what they actually mean by 'AVMA listed school' in that same section when the link they provide is to the list of accredited schools. They might just mean on the list of ECVFG eligible schools but I still find that confusing