Cheating

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norky

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I witnessed two students in my class cheating during our last pathology exam. This is not the first time that I have noticed them sharing answers during exams. Would you report the students that you saw cheating?
 
You have an obligation to do so, and to do so according to your schools Honor Code (or equivalent). Not reporting is an academic dishonesty in it's own right.
 
Although it may seem difficult, you really need to tell someone about the cheating. The veterinary profession is seen as highly ethical in the eyes of the public. If we allow cheaters into the profession, we are just undercutting ourselves. Besides, veterinarians need to be highly knowledgable, and if they are cheating, they obviously are not and don't deserve the degree.
I would ask to speak to the professor in private after class to make them aware of the cheating. At least you will know that you made the ethical and correct decision.
 
norky said:
I witnessed two students in my class cheating during our last pathology exam. This is not the first time that I have noticed them sharing answers during exams. Would you report the students that you saw cheating?
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i would tell them to cut me in on their scheme....😀

but seriously u need to weigh out the consequences of ratting on them and keeping mum. i suspect if u were to tell on them u may gain a reputation for being a snitch and no one likes a snitch....
 
theunraveler said:
i would tell them to cut me in on their scheme....😀

but seriously u need to weigh out the consequences of ratting on them and keeping mum. i suspect if u were to tell on them u may gain a reputation for being a snitch and no one likes a snitch....
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I would think veterinary students would be above that.. Otherwise, the outlook of this profession is sad.
 
Poke said:
I would think veterinary students would be above that.. Otherwise, the outlook of this profession is sad.
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Agreed. I would definitely tell a professor about it.
 
theunraveler said:
i would tell them to cut me in on their scheme....😀

but seriously u need to weigh out the consequences of ratting on them and keeping mum. i suspect if u were to tell on them u may gain a reputation for being a snitch and no one likes a snitch....
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Honestly I would rather lose a "friend" who is cheating and uphold the integrity of the veterinary profession than turn a blind eye to such childish antics. After all, if you condone it than you are just as guilty yourself and should be punished as such. IMHO.
 
absolutely turn them in. we are vet students. we will be doctors. cheating is completely unacceptable.
 
Depends how bad they were cheating. If they cheat consistently on every exam and I knew they were planning it ahead of time and each studying different parts, I would probably tell student affairs. But, for example, we had a fire alarm go off in the middle of an exam this semester and I heard 2 people talking about answers before they went back in. I minded my own business because it's really their own prerogative if they want to risk getting kicked out of vet school for 1/2 of a point on a midterm (and yes, there were at least 3-4 professors standing outside with us).

Interesting question that's been buzzing around - what do you think is worse: the fire drill cheating I just described or using unprescribed adderall to study for an exam?
 
rexosaurus said:
Honestly I would rather lose a "friend" who is cheating and uphold the integrity of the veterinary profession than turn a blind eye to such childish antics. After all, if you condone it than you are just as guilty yourself and should be punished as such. IMHO.
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It's not that simple. It's a very serious accusation that's hard to prove in the first place. I think it's a very unenviable position to catch someone flagrantly cheating, and a lot of people would rather mind their own business because of all the trouble it can cause to themselves if they snitch. We already had someone accuse another student of cheating in the middle of an exam, but the professor took no action because her claims could not be corroborated, and the accuser was made to look like she was lying because she was jealous of the alleged cheater's grades. Either story could be true - no one knows, but now both parties have had their reputations tarnished and no action was taken against either student. So I still stand at minding my own business unless it's really out of control.
 
I've been in a similar situation, and after weighing the options, I decided to tell the professor (face to face) in private. I'm not sure what the professor did in the end, and honestly it's none of my business if a punishment was ever assigned, but I personally felt it was the right decision in the end.

IMOH, cheating of any form is a disrespectful slap in the face to those who work hard.
 
I understand where you're coming from, and yes I do agree about the fire alarm scenario. But when it is persistent and obnoxious, perhaps a better way is to go about "snitching" in an anonymous fashion. It is an unenviable position to be in, as I have been in the position before, but there are ways to go about handling the situation professionally. If the professor wants to do nothing about it, then fine, but at least you can sleep at night knowing that you did your part in the matter.
 
you should because it would teach them a lesson and it would also say to them that it is wrong! cheating is never the right answer!😡🙂😎😍😱👎luck:😛😳🙁🙂
 
Yes, I would report them. At our school it is mandatory to report honor code violations, and it is an honor code violation itself if you fail to report it. Our professors take the honor code very seriously and for most of our exams we are left either in the lecture hall by ourselves or we are able to take the exam in a study room or library. Personally, I love to take my exams in a private study room so that I can stay focused, and we have these options because of the honor code and its enforcement.

An option that we are given is to report violations anonymously. In that case, those that have violations reported against them don't get as drastic a punishment (as they have no way to back up the claims), but they are talked to by the Dean of Student Affairs.
 
ri23 said:
Yes, I would report them. At our school it is mandatory to report honor code violations, and it is an honor code violation itself if you fail to report it. Our professors take the honor code very seriously and for most of our exams we are left either in the lecture hall by ourselves or we are able to take the exam in a study room or library. Personally, I love to take my exams in a private study room so that I can stay focused, and we have these options because of the honor code and its enforcement.

An option that we are given is to report violations anonymously. In that case, those that have violations reported against them don't get as drastic a punishment (as they have no way to back up the claims), but they are talked to by the Dean of Student Affairs.
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we have the same honor code thing here. it is our duty to report things like cheating and there is a very in depth process to go through. again, i'd report it.
 
cyrille104 said:
It's not that simple. It's a very serious accusation that's hard to prove in the first place. I think it's a very unenviable position to catch someone flagrantly cheating, and a lot of people would rather mind their own business because of all the trouble it can cause to themselves if they snitch. We already had someone accuse another student of cheating in the middle of an exam, but the professor took no action because her claims could not be corroborated, and the accuser was made to look like she was lying because she was jealous of the alleged cheater's grades. Either story could be true - no one knows, but now both parties have had their reputations tarnished and no action was taken against either student. So I still stand at minding my own business unless it's really out of control.

Depends how bad they were cheating. If they cheat consistently on every exam and I knew they were planning it ahead of time and each studying different parts, I would probably tell student affairs. But, for example, we had a fire alarm go off in the middle of an exam this semester and I heard 2 people talking about answers before they went back in. I minded my own business because it's really their own prerogative if they want to risk getting kicked out of vet school for 1/2 of a point on a midterm (and yes, there were at least 3-4 professors standing outside with us).

Interesting question that's been buzzing around - what do you think is worse: the fire drill cheating I just described or using unprescribed adderall to study for an exam?
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First of all, ethical dilemmas such as this should not take into account the damage you may do to your own reputation. As a side note, you shouldn't have to damage your own reputation in order to report the violation.

Second, when exactly do we define the situation as "out of control"? Pretty tough decision, so I think it is probably best to not tolerate any violations. You would hope that your colleagues would just not cheat, but when 100 people get put together, the chances of someone trying are relatively high.

As far as minding your own business, that is not how society works. It is certainly not how professionals should govern themselves. Ultimately, people should be held accountable for their actions by their peers. If we (hopefully me, since I am admittedly still in the application process) can't hold our peers responsible now, then how will we govern our profession in the future?

For example: As a scientist, it is imperative that I can trust the ethics of my colleagues. If they are fabricating or even simply manipulating data, they can seriously alter the course of my work, which is based on their false data. One false report can throw off a whole field and can very easily damage the integrity of ALL of the scientists in that field (in addition to damaging the reputation and integrity of science in general). This may seem like a drastic offshoot from a simple cheating in vet school scenario, but things escalate quickly.
 
well said Bobdog, I couldn't agree more 👍
 
BobDog said:
First of all, ethical dilemmas such as this should not take into account the damage you may do to your own reputation. As a side note, you shouldn't have to damage your own reputation in order to report the violation.

Second, when exactly do we define the situation as "out of control"? Pretty tough decision, so I think it is probably best to not tolerate any violations. You would hope that your colleagues would just not cheat, but when 100 people get put together, the chances of someone trying are relatively high.

As far as minding your own business, that is not how society works. It is certainly not how professionals should govern themselves. Ultimately, people should be held accountable for their actions by their peers. If we (hopefully me, since I am admittedly still in the application process) can't hold our peers responsible now, then how will we govern our profession in the future?

For example: As a scientist, it is imperative that I can trust the ethics of my colleagues. If they are fabricating or even simply manipulating data, they can seriously alter the course of my work, which is based on their false data. One false report can throw off a whole field and can very easily damage the integrity of ALL of the scientists in that field (in addition to damaging the reputation and integrity of science in general). This may seem like a drastic offshoot from a simple cheating in vet school scenario, but things escalate quickly.
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I see where you're coming from, but I don't necessarily agree. I think I can make a decision as to whether the situation gets uncomfortable for me, someone who is wholly uninvolved. If it's really something less offensive that I can't even prove, I'd rather not report it and look like a d-bag. You may think that professionals should not mind their own business, but I really don't think it's my responsibility to be law enforcement either. If someone else wants to report it, that's fine, but leave me out of it.

Btw fabricating scientific data and publishing it is miles away from what I'm talking about here.
 
My point is that cheating students will likely make poor veterinarians. This will ultimately reflect poorly on our profession. While not as extreme, the final effect could be similar to my scenario. Bad publicity by ONE vet could set the profession back significantly.

I don't think vet students should be "policing" each other. If an infraction is witnessed, however, their responsibility is to report it. Not fun and maybe they look like "d-bags", but still the right choice.
 
cyrille104 said:
Btw fabricating scientific data and publishing it is miles away from what I'm talking about here.
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Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather someone fabricate scientific data and publish it, than cheat on exams just so they can pass and get their license. (Hey, we've all been taught you can't alway believe what you read!) With research, there will always be other people checking the information (and usually the completely bogus stuff is tossed before being published). Sorry, but as a DVM you aren't likely to have people checking your work, so you better know what you're doing.
 
wivet2011 said:
Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather someone fabricate scientific data and publish it, than cheat on exams just so they can pass and get their license. (Hey, we've all been taught you can't alway believe what you read!) With research, there will always be other people checking the information (and usually the completely bogus stuff is tossed before being published). Sorry, but as a DVM you aren't likely to have people checking your work, so you better know what you're doing.
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No offense, but have you done research? Or taken a class on research ethics? To a PhD scientist, fabricating scientific data and publishing it is MUCH MUCH worse than a vet student cheating to pass an exam and get their license. An entire lab of a dozen or more people can be fired or their names permanently tarnished by one person falsifying data from a published paper they are associated with, innocent or not. Not only that, when other well-meaning authors cite falsified data in their own papers, it just brings down a lot of innocent people. I'm certainly not saying that cheating on exams is right, but falsified or "cooked" data is arguably more harmful because it affects more people than just one vet. Deceitful as it is, if a future vet or doctor doesn't know the answer to something because they cheated or whatever, they could probably look it up in a textbook or literature review. But who and what writes textbooks and papers? Scientific data, that's what.

Back to the original topic, if you really feel uncomfortable reporting them directly, I would tell the professor that you've noticed some wandering eyes lately.
 
BobDog said:
For example: As a scientist, it is imperative that I can trust the ethics of my colleagues. If they are fabricating or even simply manipulating data, they can seriously alter the course of my work, which is based on their false data. One false report can throw off a whole field and can very easily damage the integrity of ALL of the scientists in that field (in addition to damaging the reputation and integrity of science in general). This may seem like a drastic offshoot from a simple cheating in vet school scenario, but things escalate quickly.
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I completely agree with the situation above. We've had the issue of cheating come up in about each class since I've been in vet school (some more warranted than others). I've always looked at cheating on a test in this light:
If your future colleague is willing to cheat and re-nig on the Honor code next to & possibly in front of their classmates, what will they be willing to do in practice where they will most likely be further separated from anyone to hold them accountable? And, is that the kind of colleague you'd want out representing our profession?

I'm proud of our profession. I think that we have some brilliant minds and extremely talented individuals. I'd also like to believe that we are in an ethical profession and that people's trust in us is well-founded.

Cheating on a test is basically cutting corners, and I've heard too many stories of vets already doing that out in practice & neglecting safety / laws to want to add to those numbers by allowing cheating to go un-addressed. You may need to confront the person you suspect of cheating, go to your class reps or go to student affairs, but if you have enough reason to believe that cheating is going on, it should be discussed on some level.

I also think that vet students should be policing themselves, as a class and as a school. The AVMA is comprised of vets, as is each state's Board, and vet school is the perfect opportunity to begin learning how to work together to set standards and hold each other accountable.

Also, from the discussion below the quoted post, if I'm glancing at the research supporting a drug that I'm planning on using or a diet that I'm planning on recommending, I'd like to be able to assume (or at least start with the premise) that the principal investigator did everything in their power to assure a quality & controlled study to produce valid results. Yes, we should read with caution, but a basic level of integrity needs to be assumed with researchers. That concept is also important if further research teams use that initial study as a starting point for further investigation (taking the initial study as a baseline and continuing off that point).

This post turned out a bit longer than I originally expected, and I hope that I managed to put the thoughts flying through my head into a semi-coherent form 🙄
 
Electrophile said:
No offense, but have you done research? Or taken a class on research ethics? To a PhD scientist, fabricating scientific data and publishing it is MUCH MUCH worse than a vet student cheating to pass an exam and get their license. An entire lab of a dozen or more people can be fired or their names permanently tarnished by one person falsifying data from a published paper they are associated with, innocent or not. Not only that, when other well-meaning authors cite falsified data in their own papers, it just brings down a lot of innocent people. I'm certainly not saying that cheating on exams is right, but falsified or "cooked" data is arguably more harmful because it affects more people than just one vet. Deceitful as it is, if a future vet or doctor doesn't know the answer to something because they cheated or whatever, they could probably look it up in a textbook or literature review. But who and what writes textbooks and papers? Scientific data, that's what.

Back to the original topic, if you really feel uncomfortable reporting them directly, I would tell the professor that you've noticed some wandering eyes lately.
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Yes, I agree that it's wrong and can affect a lot of people, but that's why material is supposed to be peer reviewed before publication (and yes, I realize not all falsified info will be caught) And if it's not peer reviewed, you shouldn't count it as a reliable source...at least that's what every prof I've ever had has said.) But to say that cheating an exam will only affect one vet, is wrong!! Practicing vet med without the knowledge can also end up affecting a lot of families and their pets, not to mention give a practice a bad rep and as others have mentioned, gives the profession a bad name (not so different than with a research lab). And sorry, but if an emergency case comes in, there may not be enough time to "look things up".

So maybe the cases aren't so different and both are most def. wrong and should be reported, but my original response was directed more towards` cyrille's post about falsifying data being a way bigger deal than cheating. Now if we had a research vet falsifying info...🙂

Back to the OT...report them!!
 
If a student (high school or college) tells me there was cheating going on...I just can't take their word for it and I don't confront the students. I just watch them very, very carefully from then on. If it's going to be a common occurance, they will do it again, then I will be the one to catch them. The decision of what to do with them is now entirley mine b/c I personally witnessed it.

The students who are busted never even know I was 'tipped' off. Profs are smart. I would like to believe that if you told them something in confidence, they should never reveal the source of the tip. I don't. Just my .02
 
Thank-you everyone for your advice. I did it. I reported them and I feel terrible on one hand, but on the other hand I feel that in the long run it was the best decision. I hope anyways. I asked to remain anonymous so, hopefully the prof will respect my request.
 
wivet2011 said:
Yes, I agree that it's wrong and can affect a lot of people, but that's why material is supposed to be peer reviewed before publication (and yes, I realize not all falsified info will be caught) And if it's not peer reviewed, you shouldn't count it as a reliable source...at least that's what every prof I've ever had has said.)
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The problem is that peer review often cannot identify ouright falsification of data. Reviewers usually don't have access to the raw data and even if they did, it can be difficult or impossible to tell if the data is fradulent. The only way to detect fraud is when other groups try to reproduce the results and fail or if someone rats out the investigator. For example, the physicist Jan Hendrik Schön had 15 articles published Nature and Science, among other peer-reveiwd journals. Only later when other physicists started looking into the work did it become apparent that the papers were fraud. The papers had to be retracted by the journals.

That's why this sort of misconduct is conisdered such a severe violation in science.
 
Agreed, Bill59. During grad school, I took a research ethics class and it is very very easy to cook data or call data points outliers and exclude to fit your model, that sort of thing. There was another case of something like 15 papers a year coming out of one lab, until someone finally caught them falsifying data. I also remember the case of the vet research scientist from Korea with the human cloning/stem cell research and falsifying data just a few years ago. Wivet2011, I don't mean to sound adversarial (or bitchy for that matter), but have you done research yourself? It's not difficult to falsify data at all, but it is still more severe in my opinion than cheating on an exam to get your license. In an emergency situation, everyone's going to have an "oh crap! I totally forgot!" moment that can lead to unpleasant outcomes, cheaters or not. But the bedrock of scientific and medical knowledge is research and falsifying the facts has much more outreaching consequences.
 
Electrophile said:
Agreed, Bill59. During grad school, I took a research ethics class and it is very very easy to cook data or call data points outliers and exclude to fit your model, that sort of thing. There was another case of something like 15 papers a year coming out of one lab, until someone finally caught them falsifying data. I also remember the case of the vet research scientist from Korea with the human cloning/stem cell research and falsifying data just a few years ago. Wivet2011, I don't mean to sound adversarial (or bitchy for that matter), but have you done research yourself? It's not difficult to falsify data at all, but it is still more severe in my opinion than cheating on an exam to get your license. In an emergency situation, everyone's going to have an "oh crap! I totally forgot!" moment that can lead to unpleasant outcomes, cheaters or not. But the bedrock of scientific and medical knowledge is research and falsifying the facts has much more outreaching consequences.
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Again, not the point I was trying to make. I just don't think that the two situations are all that different, both are very wrong for many reasons that I've already discussed. Yes, you aren't always going to catch falsified data with peer review (which I stated), but that's why research is so often repeated by more than group, to either elaborate on the research or to prove it incorrect. And yes, everyone has "oh crap" moments, but it's the doctors that learned the information in the first place that are able to get over that moment and do something to help the situation (even if the outcome is the same; some animals just can't be saved regardless of the doctor). But whatever...I'm not going to argue anymore. To each their own opinion.
 
Cyrille, your hypothetical about unprescribed aderall was interesting. Personally, I would not discriminate between having an aderall prescription and using non-prescription aderall. I know SO many people who have prescriptions for aderall but are not clinically that much different from other distracted, harried students who are having trouble focusing. It is very easy to get a prescription from a doctor for aderall or other concentration aid, and many people can "fake" or exaggerate their symptoms enough and score a prescription.

I certainly don't want my colleagues on drugs that would impair their ability to do good work. Crystal meth or ketamine from the lock box? Nope. Not a good idea. But an aderall borrowed from a prescription holder to wake up the brain for an emergency surgery at 3am? Why not? I don't think there are any real "moral" differences between popping an aderall and drinking 3 cups of coffee to achieve the same effect. But I'm fairly utilitarian when it comes to moral reasoning. Is taking non-prescription aderall against the law? Yep. Is taking it to improve one's performance of potentially life-saving tasks worth it in certain circumstances? You bet. Would I do it? Doubtful -- amphetamines are not good for your brain in the long run, and there are other less deleterious ways to up regulate your sympathetics -- like jumping jacks!
 
Slothbear said:
But an aderall borrowed from a prescription holder to wake up the brain for an emergency surgery at 3am?
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uh, wow. have you ever seen someone who shouldn't be on adderall use it? i mean, it can definitely work well...but if you accidentally focus on the wrong thing (for example, a cup of coffee instead of your patient) you will be SCREWED. i used to have friends who used it in undergrad, and every once in a while someone would take it while concentrating on the wrong thing....and then they couldn't get ANY work done at all. that would be a huge huge HUGE risk and i can't even imagine anyone even thinking about taking drugs like that while a patient's life is on the line. Pop a no-doz and maybe a sudafed.
 
You make a good point --the american pilots in Iraq that bombed and killed a Canadian convoy were taking amphetamine-like substances for wakefulness. Who knows if that had anything to do with it, but it definitely doesn't look good.

But a follow-up question -- do you think vet schools should screen out applicants taking meds for ADHD, since they will ostensibly be taking aderall as vets? What about students with other medical conditions who are taking drugs that have psychoactive side effects? Or are you making a distinction between between people who need meds, and people who take them to stay awake? (i.e. you'd be OK handing your dog over to a vet taking medication for ADHD, but not one who occasionally took aderall for wakefulness?)
But you know, No-Doze are pretty scary too! I took two while studying for a Ochem exam undergrad, and it did not feel like a healthy thing to do at all. A couple tips for natural wakefulness -- peppermint tea or candy, going outside without a coat during winter, and exercise -- but you do look like a ***** trying that in the library. Haveta make sure no one else is there 😉
 
no i have a cousin who (legitimately) has ADHD (or really, ADHHHHHHHHD 🙂 ) and when used appropriately, adderall works. the problems with focusing occur when it is used by people that shouldn't be using it. It makes you hyper-focus...when you have no focus at all, this brings you to a normal functioning level (like with my cousin)...when you have a normal focus, you go into this like "uber-focus" mode and if you concentrate on the wrong thing...forget it you'll spend 6 hours staring out the window.
 
Wow. This topic changed quickly! 🙂 Very interesting points though everyone!
 
i'm with silverelf on this one. how can you ethically screen out an applicant who is treating a psychological disease? you can't. :hijacked:
 
Oh Lordy - I wasn't saying that you should or that it would be ethical!! I was curious about what silver elf had said about not wanting vets to be on drugs. It was a question designed to tease out what sort of practical/functional/moral differences (s)he thought there would be between legit and off-label users. I think (s)he answered that nicely, though apparently my question was a clumsy one.
 
Slothbear said:
Personally, I would not discriminate between having an aderall prescription and using non-prescription aderall.
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The DEA would. And since they are the ones that decide whether you can prescribe prescription and controlled drugs, their opinion carries some weight.
 
Er....speaking as someone with legitimately Dxed ADD and some other disorders I will not go into...and takes medication. How is someone with ADD taking medication, or with clinical depression, or schizophrenia, any different than, say, someone with diabetes taking insulin?

One physiological issue (brain chemistry) versus another equal physiological issue (pancreatic chemistry)

If you miss your Addrall, or your Risperdal, or whatever, who can't concentrate/do work well due to mental/physical effects. If you miss your insulin, you can't do your work properly either due to the mental/physical effects (and more - but I am speaking mainly of work-related issues). If you don't take your heart meds, you have a heart attack!

Should we screen out anyone taking medication, for fear that they will miss their dose and screw up something? Of course not. Psh.
 
AUGH! I wasn't saying that we should or that I would want to! I was responding to the statement that silverelf made that she wouldn't want vets on drugs -- so I was asking her if she thought vets legitimately on drugs should be screened out, since those would fall under the category of "vets on drugs." She gave an excellent response as to why she would not be in favor of a such a screen. I would not be in favor of such a screen, and that is why I asked the question! I should have worded it: If you didn't want your vets using psychoactives, wouldn't you be including people taking them for legitimate reasons (and wouldn't that be wrong?)

O, communication😍
 
it is -- i always want to include pictures of my facial expression with e-mails!
 
Hey let them do what they got to do, really its only a test, you cant just cheat your way through vet school.... once in a while you think about it

Peace to The World
With Animal LOve.....
TuT
 
KingTut said:
Hey let them do what they got to do, really its only a test, you cant just cheat your way through vet school.... once in a while you think about it

Peace to The World
With Animal LOve.....
TuT
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wow. i completely disagree.
 
KingTut said:
Hey let them do what they got to do, really its only a test, you cant just cheat your way through vet school.... once in a while you think about it

Peace to The World
With Animal LOve.....
TuT
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i tend to agree....

but in UQ its hard to copy exam answers becoz its not MCQ but rather u have to write a short essay for the questions (short answer question or SAQ)

knowing personally that many vet students have atrocious hand writings and the way the examination hall is laid out makes it hard to cheat and i think if u can cheat in this type of condition u deserve some leeway....heheh 😀
 
sofficat said:
wow. i completely disagree.
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The Reply session....
with TuT....
You may disagree at the moment because of ethics, however if you say you never thought about cheating, well my friend i must call you a fibber...

Dont get mad, be glad😀
Peace to The world......😎
TuTuT
 
You may disagree at the moment because of ethics, however if you say you never thought about cheating, well my friend i must call you a fibber...

The reply session
with WhtsThFrequency...who is about to roll her eyes right out of her head at this point.

Thinking about cheating and actually DOING it are two completely different things, and you cannot pretend that they aren't. I don't give a rats behind if you cheat in pre-vet/undergrad. Undergrad is a joke. Most people in college are buffoons anyway. That's your own personal idiotic and ethically lacking decision.

But we are not "college students". We are in a doctoral-level program. This is professional school. This is medical school. You are becoming doctors not getting a rinky-dink GED or something. You don't cheat, period.
 
WhtsThFrequency said:
You may disagree at the moment because of ethics, however if you say you never thought about cheating, well my friend i must call you a fibber...

The reply session
with WhtsThFrequency...who is about to roll her eyes right out of her head at this point.

Thinking about cheating and actually DOING it are two completely different things, and you cannot pretend that they aren't. I don't give a rats behind if you cheat in pre-vet/undergrad. Undergrad is a joke. Most people in college are buffoons anyway. That's your own personal idiotic and ethically lacking decision.

But we are not "college students". We are in a doctoral-level program. This is professional school. This is medical school. You are becoming doctors not getting a rinky-dink GED or something. You don't cheat, period.
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well said. i have decided to completely ignore all of kingtut's posts. not worth my time 😀
 
what is a troll? i didn't get the memo. 😀
 
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