Fellowship competitiveness in Neurology

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Chocolateagar04

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Hey everyone,

When I was on the interview trail it seemed like every program had a really impressive match list for fellowship and most people get what they want. This brings me to four questions:

1. How competitive are Neurology fellowships exactly? Is there a general ranking order of most competitive to least?
2. Is it super rare to obtain a Pain Medicine fellowship as a Neurologist?
3. What are some "procedural" sub specialties in Neurology?
4. For some reason I think I'd want to practice general neurology. I like the variety of it and think I'd get bored doing the same thing everyday. Do people even do that anymore and get jobs?

Thanks!
 
Hey everyone,

When I was on the interview trail it seemed like every program had a really impressive match list for fellowship and most people get what they want. This brings me to four questions:

1. How competitive are Neurology fellowships exactly? Is there a general ranking order of most competitive to least?
2. Is it super rare to obtain a Pain Medicine fellowship as a Neurologist?
3. What are some "procedural" sub specialties in Neurology?
4. For some reason I think I'd want to practice general neurology. I like the variety of it and think I'd get bored doing the same thing everyday. Do people even do that anymore and get jobs?

Thanks!

1. In general, just like neuro residencies, fellowships are not usually super-competitive except at big-name places. In fact, sometimes the big-name places can actually be paradoxically easier to get into because 1) there is a tendency for places to feed their own residents into their own fellowship programs, and 2) big programs may have more fellowship slots open than they have their own residents interested in taking them, so they may have spare open slots. A small program with, say, 1 EMG fellow a year may be taken up by an internal resident but a big program with 4 slots may only have 2 or 3 "home grown" neuro residents who want it.

This was actually my own anecdotal experience when I was applying for fellowships: I was getting shut out of places I thought I'd have no problem getting in to, but getting called for interviews by places I didn't expect would even look at my application.

Also, some fellowships (sleep, pain and interventional) can be quite competitive due to high demand and relatively low number of programs. Other stuff like neurophys, epilepsy, headache, MS, are not too tough.

2. Don't know. Probably not "super rare" but also probably not super easy. Would probably go ask this over in the Pain forum for a better answer.

3. EMG, EEG, sleep, interventional

4. I'd hire you in a minute to do general neuro. You could see all the general neuro stuff and I can to my subspecialty work. Wait . . . that's the problem . . . everybody wants to do subspecialty work . . .

So, yes, you could find a job pretty easily, especially in "community" as opposed to "academic" practices.

Many people do EMG/EEG because it gives you a billable procedure. Others do other subspec fellowships out of interest and would just prefer to focus on their own area rather than "general neuro" (defined as: "everything that's not my subspecialty" 😉) Seeing chronic headache and TIA patients for 15 minute followups all day gets a bit tedious after a while unless you have some particular interest in those areas. Also, those office visits don't pay as much as doing EMGs or angiograms, so that's another issue.
 
Hey everyone,

When I was on the interview trail it seemed like every program had a really impressive match list for fellowship and most people get what they want. This brings me to four questions:

1. How competitive are Neurology fellowships exactly? Is there a general ranking order of most competitive to least?
2. Is it super rare to obtain a Pain Medicine fellowship as a Neurologist?
3. What are some "procedural" sub specialties in Neurology?
4. For some reason I think I'd want to practice general neurology. I like the variety of it and think I'd get bored doing the same thing everyday. Do people even do that anymore and get jobs?

Thanks!

1. Depends on program. Trick is, apply early, I know a headache fellowship in NYC that chooses their fellow in March, so start asking my Jan of your PGY-4 year

2. Not unheard of. Some programs are accepting other disciplines other than anesthesia. I am seeing more and more pain specialist that did neurology. I currently share office space with pain doc, they do NO CALL take plenty of time off and make more money than I will ever see!!

3. Pain, Clinical neurophysiology (if you do EMG oriented fellowship). Of course, there are procedures that you interpret but do not do: Sleep, EEG. Some movement disorders guys get into DBS management. Of course, interventional neurology is procedural.

4. Yes. The demand is very high. Having good EMG/EEG skills is a plus but not necessary.
 
Hey everyone,

When I was on the interview trail it seemed like every program had a really impressive match list for fellowship and most people get what they want. This brings me to four questions:

1. How competitive are Neurology fellowships exactly? Is there a general ranking order of most competitive to least?
2. Is it super rare to obtain a Pain Medicine fellowship as a Neurologist?
3. What are some "procedural" sub specialties in Neurology?
4. For some reason I think I'd want to practice general neurology. I like the variety of it and think I'd get bored doing the same thing everyday. Do people even do that anymore and get jobs?

Thanks!

Basically I agree with what everyone else is saying.

1. Not very with rare exceptions. Those exceptions are particular fellowships at "name" locations and fellowships in certain popular areas like interventional, pain, and sleep.

2. I know that it's competitive for neurology residents. Like interventional and sleep, you have residents from different backgrounds that can apply for pain (for instance anesthesiology, neurology, and PM&R). The subspecialty of pain generates strong income through it's procedures, and can have a strictly outpatient lifestyle, which contributes to its popularity. As said above, you will probably find better advice on the Pain and Anesthesiology fora.

3. Like everybody's saying...pain procedures, sleep studies, interventional, neurocritical care, EEG, EMG, evoked potentials, intra-operative monitoring, botox injections, carotid ultrasound, trans-cranial dopplers and neuroimaging. Some of these are done via specific fellowships, others may be performed with a general neurology residency alone.

4. Heh. General neurology was the highest demand job when I was hunting last year. Like neurologist said, the growing problem seems to be that fewer and fewer people actually want to take all comers in neurologic medicine. Most of us seem to want to see carefully selected patient populations within neurology. A fellowship in neurophysiology (either EEG or EMG) is a popular choice to supplement general neurology skills. I think you would have absolutely no problem finding a job whatsoever if you're not picky about avoiding certain patient populations.
 
Awesome! Thanks for the replies.

Perhaps I'll change as I continue through residency but I envision myself as being sort of a family practitioner of Neurology in the future.

This good article by a General Neurology private practitioner in Chicago pretty much summarizes my goals for now
http://clinneuro.com/opers.html

Thanks again
 
This good article by a General Neurology private practitioner in Chicago pretty much summarizes my goals for now
http://clinneuro.com/opers.html

That's an interesting essay (everyone here should read it -- it's a short, quick read).

I did find this a bit odd:

We also see patients more quickly than university hospitals, which often have waitlists of three and four years,

3-4 YEARS?!??! Really?

Wow. I'm gonna show that to the admin pukes here who complain about our 3-4 month waits . . . :laugh:
 
That's an interesting essay (everyone here should read it -- it's a short, quick read).

I did find this a bit odd:



3-4 YEARS?!??! Really?

Wow. I'm gonna show that to the admin pukes here who complain about our 3-4 month waits . . . :laugh:

Excuse my language but... what the ****?
 
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