Financing for Canadian Pod Students

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darazon

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I curious to hear from some Canadian pod students on how they financed the tuition and living expenses of podiatry school.

The Canadian government will only give you so much and the CanHELP program can only give you a loan if you have an American co-signer. From what I understand, that only leaves the banks which only give you $150K for pod school.
 
I curious to hear from some Canadian pod students on how they financed the tuition and living expenses of podiatry school.

The Canadian government will only give you so much and the CanHELP program can only give you a loan if you have an American co-signer. From what I understand, that only leaves the banks which only give you $150K for pod school.

Outside of the CanHELP, you have the provincial loan services i.e. OSAP for Ontario-based residents, and lines of credits from banks.
 
Heres my finsheet:
10,000$ OSAP
15,000$ RBC Line of Credit
-------
25,0000 = Fees/per year
Living expenses = parents+personal savings etc
 
I'm just curious. Why are you doing pod school in the states if a DPM is not recognized in Canada? Aren't states residencies impossible to get for canadians? I'm also interested in podiatry, but the fact that I'm a canadian citizen has presented lots of problems.
 
I'm just curious. Why are you doing pod school in the states if a DPM is not recognized in Canada? Aren't states residencies impossible to get for canadians? I'm also interested in podiatry, but the fact that I'm a canadian citizen has presented lots of problems.

DPM is recognized in a majority of the provinces in canada. American residencies are open to canadian students, the only exception is the VA residencies which are not. Currently there are dozens of canadian students at the US pod schools being trained. Across canada there are literally hundreds of DPM's practicing that are canadian born, and US trained. Not sure what problems you are facing due to your citzenship!?!?!?!


To the OP - Alberta student loans should provide you with funding in addition to canada student loans. If you have no help from your familly or personal savings i would go to RBC first and apply for an LOC. The student loans in addition to the LOC from RBC or another bank should get you through the four years.
 
I'm just curious. Why are you doing pod school in the states if a DPM is not recognized in Canada? Aren't states residencies impossible to get for canadians? I'm also interested in podiatry, but the fact that I'm a canadian citizen has presented lots of problems.

I had multiple programs offer me spots despite my Canadian status. DPMs are recognized in most provinces with the exception maybe is Ontario due to a cap issue. Alot of Canadian grads elect to either practice in the western provinces i.e. Alberta and BC, while others choose to stay here in the US and practice. This is something very common actually.
 
I had multiple programs offer me spots despite my Canadian status. DPMs are recognized in most provinces with the exception maybe is Ontario due to a cap issue. Alot of Canadian grads elect to either practice in the western provinces i.e. Alberta and BC, while others choose to stay here in the US and practice. This is something very common actually.

Ontario recognizes DPM's and there are numerous DPM's practicing there. The scope of practice there is pretty terrible right now but that may change in the near future (speculation). I know Sask doesnt recognize DPM's and i think Manitoba is the same. I think all the other provinces are open to DPM's.
 
Ontario recognizes the DPMs that were licensed prior to 1993. After 1993, a DPM can register to practice in Ontario, however, is limited to the scope of practice of a chiropodist. Hopefully things will change soon. It's pretty ironic that the APMA scientific meeting is being held in a province where podiatrists cannot even get licensed. I guess Toronto is a nice city though.

There is a school of podiatry opening at the university of alberta in 2012. Things are looking good out west.
 
Ontario recognizes DPM's and there are numerous DPM's practicing there. The scope of practice there is pretty terrible right now but that may change in the near future (speculation). I know Sask doesnt recognize DPM's and i think Manitoba is the same. I think all the other provinces are open to DPM's.

I spoke with Kel Sherkin (former Ontario Podiatric Medical Association) on multiple occasions regarding this issue of change in the provincial picture and removing the cap, but no timeline has been given. Who knows when or if this is going to happen. At any rate, as it stands practicing in neighboring American states or podiatry friendly provinces (i.e. Alberta, BC) is probably the way to go.

I personally do not foresee myself ignoring my hindfoot and ankle surgery training at this stage of my career to return to Ontario. The problem that they have is that the current podiatrists at the province do not have much if any complete surgical training - most of them had one year of surgical training (and nothing is wrong with that of course). The cap that was imposed in 1993 limited any new DPM from entering the province, so they are lagging by over 15 years. I think there's room for this province to have Orthopedic surgeons, newly trained podiatric surgeons, the "older" currently practicing podiatrists, and chiropodists work together to provide the most comprehensive foot and ankle care to that community.
 
Not arguing whether residency is open to canadians or not. Just that when US students are given preference for residency spots, it's next to impossible for canadians to match. At least that's what i was told.
 
Not arguing whether residency is open to canadians or not. Just that when US students are given preference for residency spots, it's next to impossible for canadians to match. At least that's what i was told.

Again, I personally was offered spots by multiple programs and the former Canadian grads that I knew from my school, landed solid PM&S-36 programs. So I don't get where you're getting your information from. Residency program directors want good residents - period. Citizenship is a non-issue (for the most part - the VA being a notable exception) as long as you're qualified for the job.
 
Again, I personally was offered spots by multiple programs and the former Canadian grads that I knew from my school, landed solid PM&S-36 programs. So I don't get where you're getting your information from. Residency program directors want good residents - period. Citizenship is a non-issue (for the most part - the VA being a notable exception) as long as you're qualified for the job.

Check out the link below. It seemed to me that this guy has some valid points (hiskitreen).

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=589051&highlight=podiatry+canadian
 
Check out the link below. It seemed to me that this guy has some valid points (hiskitreen).

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=589051&highlight=podiatry+canadian

Alot of it is outdated, and biased. Who said the VA programs are necessarily the "best"? Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of solid VA programs but they are not necessarily the best programs in the country. Despite that, you're still able to rotate through the VA as a student without any problems (I did). Additionally, I know for a fact that the Kaiser systems have no problem with your citizenship status. The visa situation is not as bad as people make it seem to be. Nowadays, you need an H1B to work in residency and that visa is renewable as long as you're employed. I personally know Canadian DPM's who practice with H1B's and elect against getting a green card (personal choice). The fact of the matter is that the Canadian-American workforce has always been open at both borders for healthcare professionals. The poster is speaking from his experience but I'm speaking from mine (being a student who will match a residency spot) and from the experiences of colleagues who currently practice in the field.
 
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does this have anything to do with it?

http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Job=Podiatrist_(DP_/_DPM)_or_Chiropodist/Salary

Seems that canadian pods earn, on average, half of what american pods earn

I would imagine they earn less but not that low of an income. I think you have to keep in mind that they are lumping DPM and Chiropodists as one figure. DPMs have a more expanded scope of practice and thereby can bill for more procedures. Even in a province like Ontario, where both professions co-exist, the DPM's (the ones that can still practice anyway), still do surgery (forefoot and in-office), prescribe medications, and offer an overall expanded scope compared to the Chiropodists. On the other hand, DPM's in a province like Alberta bill for more procedures since they have an expanded surgical scope.
 
I would imagine they earn less but not that low of an income. I think you have to keep in mind that they are lumping DPM and Chiropodists as one figure. DPMs have a more expanded scope of practice and thereby can bill for more procedures. Even in a province like Ontario, where both professions co-exist, the DPM's (the ones that can still practice anyway), still do surgery (forefoot and in-office), prescribe medications, and offer an overall expanded scope compared to the Chiropodists. On the other hand, DPM's in a province like Alberta bill for more procedures since they have an expanded surgical scope.

PMSIII. You've been very helpful, and I thank you for that. I've been searching tirelessly for information about my status as a canadian, and I've come up with nothing. Do you know where you got your information from? I find it hard to believe that american and canadians are treated equally when it comes to matching into residency spots. Also, do you know of any sources that mention how difficult it is for canadian pod graduates to work in the states? (in terms of visa restrictions).
 
PMSIII. You've been very helpful, and I thank you for that. I've been searching tirelessly for information about my status as a canadian, and I've come up with nothing. Do you know where you got your information from? I find it hard to believe that american and canadians are treated equally when it comes to matching into residency spots. Also, do you know of any sources that mention how difficult it is for canadian pod graduates to work in the states? (in terms of visa restrictions).

Check your inbox
 
does this have anything to do with it?

http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Job=Podiatrist_(DP_%2F_DPM)_or_Chiropodist/Salary

Seems that canadian pods earn, on average, half of what american pods earn

The pod I shadowed said he would hire a pod right out of residency at 100K -that was 5 years ago when he told me that. I think those stats are skewed because of the Ontario chiropodists.

Job outlooks in Alberta, at least, are very good. The Foot Institute is always looking for podiatrists. Currently, there are only 55 pods in Alberta, and all that I have talked to are extremely busy.
 
Ontario recognizes the DPMs that were licensed prior to 1993. After 1993, a DPM can register to practice in Ontario, however, is limited to the scope of practice of a chiropodist. Hopefully things will change soon. It's pretty ironic that the APMA scientific meeting is being held in a province where podiatrists cannot even get licensed. I guess Toronto is a nice city though.

There is a school of podiatry opening at the university of alberta in 2012. Things are looking good out west.

How did you find out about that? Is there any more info??
 
Attached in an email sent to me from the ontario podiatric medical association:

A Proposed Framework for the New Podiatry Model in Ontario

1. Introduction

The HPRAC referral provides a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to implement a model for the delivery of foot care that fully and effectively responds to the current and foreseen needs of Ontarians and Ontario's health care delivery system. There is a range of "Podiatry" models in Canada and in comparable international jurisdictions. The challenge is to select the best reference point for Ontario.

At a meeting of the ad hoc committee, it was recommended that the committee identify the Canadian province that has the most extensive Podiatry scope of practice and use it as a model. There is no point in going for second or third best. Furthermore, using the most extensive scope of practice as the model for our proposal to HPRAC will help to facilitate the Interprovincial (and international) mobility of practitioners, which appears now to be a priority adopted by every provincial and territorial government.

Furthermore, a current preoccupation of the Ontario government (and HPRAC) is interprofessional collaboration, in order to provide seamless patient care and also to use healthcare practitioners to the maximum of their competencies within their respective scopes of practice. One health care specialization with which podiatrists particularly need to collaborate is orthopedic surgeons. At a recent meeting of the American Podiatric Medical Association in Washington, the President of the AMA (who happens to be an orthopedic surgeon) spoke. He stated that for the podiatry profession to be accepted by medicine in general and orthopedic surgeons in particular, the profession should aim for parity in competencies and parity in standards of practice wherever scopes of practice overlap between podiatry and medicine. The same point has been made in meetings with the Canadian and Ontario orthopedic associations.

The Podiatry models that currently exist in Canada1 have been closely canvassed and the Alberta model has been identified as the one with the most extensive scope. It is not only "tested" but also most likely to promote interprofessional collaboration and to respond to Ontario's requirements for the foreseeable future. Obviously, some aspects of the model will have to be adapted to the RHPA framework and to the particular circumstances and requirements of Ontario's health care delivery system.

2. The Alberta Model

Background

Podiatric medicine has been a regulated profession in Alberta since 1965. From 1924-1965 the profession was regulated as surgical chiropody. There are currently 62 podiatrists registered to practise in the Province.2

To be eligible to practise as a podiatrist in Alberta, one must have graduated with a Doctor of Podiatric Medicine/DPM degree from a program accredited by the Council of Podiatric Medical Education (CPME), plus have completed at least two years' residency at an approved facility and completed Parts 1, 2 and 3 of the National Board examinations. Within the next two or three years Alberta will likely require a minimum of three years' residency.

The Alberta Podiatry Association, the Government of Alberta and the University of Alberta are working together to launch a DPM program at the University of Alberta as part of the Faculty of Medicine and Dentistry to accept students beginning in the 2012-13 academic year. This would mean two DPM programs would be operating in Canada; one planned for Alberta and one currently operating in Québec. The Québec program is not yet CPME accredited, however, and it would take some time for the Alberta program to obtain CPME accreditation as well. Podiatrists in Alberta are also authorized to call themselves “Doctor”, as well as being authorized to use several other protected titles.

Podiatrists are currently regulated under the Podiatry Act, RSA 2000, c-6. The statutory scope of practice of the profession is as follows:

“podiatry”

(i) means the branch of the healing arts that treats ailments, diseased conditions, deformities or injuries of the human foot and the leg muscles controlling the foot, and



(ii) includes the examination, diagnosis and treatment of those ailments, conditions, deformities or injuries, but



(iii) does not include the treatment of systemic diseases of bones, muscles or ligaments, or the use of x-ray equipment for purposes other than diagnostic, or the use of anesthetics other than local.

Pursuant to its authority under the Podiatry Act, the Alberta Podiatry Association (the regulatory body) has authorized members of the profession to perform the following activities:

* Cut a body tissue to administer anything by an invasive procedure on body tissue or to perform surgical or other invasive procedures on body tissue below the dermis of the foot or ankle;
* Re-set a fracture of a bone of the foot or ankle;
* Reduce a dislocation of a joint of the toes;
* Prescribe a Schedule 1 drug within the meaning of the Pharmacy and Drug Act
* Dispense, compound, provide for selling or sell a Schedule 1 drug or Schedule 2 drug within the meaning of the Pharmacy and Drug Act for the purpose of treating ailments, diseases, deformities and injuries of the human foot and ankle;
* Administer nitrous oxide gas for the purpose of anesthesia or sedation when treating ailments, diseases, deformities and injuries of the human foot and ankle;
* Order or apply any form of ionizing radiation in medical radiography and nuclear medicine for the purpose of treating ailments, diseases, deformities and injuries of the human foot and ankle;
* Order or apply any form of non-ionizing radiation in lithotripsy, magnetic resonance imaging or ultrasound imaging for the purpose of treating aliments, diseases, deformities and injuries of t he human foot and ankle.



The Future in Alberta

The (Alberta) Podiatry Act will be revoked very soon, perhaps as early as this Fall, at which point the Podiatry profession, like all of the other regulated health care professions in Alberta, will be brought under the Health Professions Act.3

Pursuant to a draft regulation ("Podiatrists Profession Regulation") prepared by the Ministry of Health for review by the podiatry profession and other stakeholders, the "restricted activities" to be granted to the podiatry profession under the Health Professions Act are as follows:

Restricted activities

12(1) A regulated member registered on the general register or on the courtesy register may, within the practice of podiatry and in accordance with the standards of practice, perform the following restricted activities for the purpose of diagnosing and treating ailments, diseases, deformities and injuries of the human foot:

(a) to cut a body tissue, to administer anything by an invasive procedure on body tissue or to perform surgical or other invasive procedures on body tissue below the dermis of the foot and ankle;

(b) to set or reset a fracture of a bone of the foot or ankle;

(c) to reduce a dislocation of a joint of the toes;

(d) to prescribe a Schedule 1 drug within the meaning of the Pharmacy and Drug Act

(e) to dispense, compound, provide for selling or sell a Schedule 1 drug or Schedule 2 drug within the meaning of the Pharmacy and Drug Act for the purpose of treating ailments, diseases, deformities and injuries of human foot and ankle;

(f) to prescribe or administer nitrous oxide gas for the purpose of Anesthesia or sedation when treating aliments, diseases, deformities and injuries of the human foot and ankle;

(g) to order or apply any form of ionizing radiation in medical radiography and nuclear medicine for the purpose of treating aliments, diseases, deformities and injuries of the human foot and ankle;

(h) to order or apply any form of non-ionizing radiation in lithotripsy, magnetic resonance imaging or ultrasound imaging for purpose of treating aliments, diseases, deformities and injuries of the human foot and ankle;

(2) Despite subsection (1)(e), a regulated member performing the restricted activity described in that subsection shall not distribute, trade or barter for money or valuable consideration or keep for sale or offer for sale a Schedule 1 drug or a Schedule 2 drug within the meaning of the Pharmacy and Drug Act but may distribute or give away a Schedule 1 drug or a Schedule 2 Drug without expectation or hope of compensation or reward.

Self-restriction

13(1) Despite any authorization to perform restricted activities, regulated members must restrict themselves in performing restricted activities to those activities that they are competent to perform and to those that are appropriate to the regulated member’s area of practice and the procedure being performed.

(2) A regulated member who performs a restricted activity must to so in accordance with the standards of practice.

3. Proposed Plan for Ontario

Scope of Practice Statement

The scope of practice statement as it currently appears in section 4 of the Chiropody Act, 1991 would be expanded as follows:

“The practice of podiatry is the assessment or diagnosis of the foot and ankle and the treatment and prevention of diseases, disorders or dysfunctions of the foot, ankle and legs muscles controlling the foot by therapeutic, orthotic or palliative means.

Authorized Acts

Adapting Alberta's "restricted activities" to Ontario's RHPA controlled act framework would result in a list of authorized acts along the lines of the following:

1. regulations. (Expansion of the current authorized Communicating a diagnosis identifying a disease or disorder of the foot or ankle as the cause of a person's symptoms. (Expansion of current authorized act.)

2. Cutting into subcutaneous tissues of the foot and ankle, including bony tissues. (Expansion of current authorized act.)

3. Setting or casting a fracture of a bone or a dislocation of a joint in the foot or ankle. (New authorized act.)

4. Administering, by injection into feet or by inhalation, a substance designated in the act. (Expansion of authorized act)

5. Prescribing or dispensing drugs designated in the regulations. (Expansion of authorized act.)

6. Applying or ordering the application to the foot or ankle of a form of energy designated in the regulations. (New authorized act.)

Additional Authorities

Pursuant to the “Operation of Approved Hospitals Regulation” (sections 9 and 10) under the (Alberta) Hospitals Act, RSA 2000, c H-12, Alberta's podiatrists are entitled to Hospital privileges (i.e. admission and release of patients, ordering diagnostic tests, access to operating facilities), which are administered at the health region level. Amendments to the Hospital Management Regulation (Regulation 965) under the (Ontario) Public Hospitals Act would be required to provide Podiatrists with the same privileges in Ontario.

Alberta's podiatrists are entitled to order all lab and diagnostic tests as deemed necessary to their practice of podiatric medicine. Ordering laboratory tests is not a restricted activity in Alberta, but podiatrists are issued practitioner IDs by the Ministry of Health and Wellness in order to be able to bill the Alberta Health Care Insurance Plan for the tests they order.

Amendments to Regulation 682 under the (Ontario) Laboratory and the Specimen Collection Centre Licensing Act would be required to provide podiatrists with the same privileges in Ontario, as well as amendments to Regulation 552 under the Ontario Health Insurance Act in order for the lab tests ordered by podiatrists to be covered by OHIP.

Payment to medical specialists is authorized under the Physicians' Schedule of Benefits for direct referrals from podiatrists. Amendments to Regulation 552 under the (Ontario) Health Insurance Act would be required to provide podiatrists with the same privileges in Ontario.

Regulatory Framework

The new regulatory model would include the following major features:

* The Chiropody Act, 1991 would be revoked and replaced by the Podiatry Act, 200?
* The College of Chiropodists would be continued as the College of Podiatrists
* The profession would mean the profession of Podiatry
* The Scope of Practice statement would be amended to include specific reference to the ankle, as well as the foot
* The Class of Members concept would be removed. Persons continuing to be limited in their practice to the current Chiropody authorized acts would be distinguished by conditions and limitations attached to their registrations and would be identified as such on the College's web site.
* The "podiatric cap" (i.e. Subsection 3 (2) of the Chiropody Act, 1991) would be revoked.
 
The pod I shadowed said he would hire a pod right out of residency at 100K -that was 5 years ago when he told me that. I think those stats are skewed because of the Ontario chiropodists.

Job outlooks in Alberta, at least, are very good. The Foot Institute is always looking for podiatrists. Currently, there are only 55 pods in Alberta, and all that I have talked to are extremely busy.


Its true that the pods in AB are doing good, very good in fact. BUt this may change somewhat if funding for pod services get cut soon. There has been a rumor to this effect. I guess we will find out soon enough.

As for the school opening up at U of A. I have heard this for a few years now. But 2 admins I spoke to at U of A had no clue about this. Take that for what its worth.
 
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