General Radiology Info

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Alex1524

Alex1524

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Im a freshman in college and want to know what steps i would have to take in order to become a radiologist and no one can give me a freaking answer. =-( How long is school? Residency? DO you get paid during residency?

I heard its 4 years undergrad, 4 years med school, then another 4 years residency i believe?

Im just curious as to what you learn in med school.(Obviously medicine) BUt Does everyone learn then same thing then during residency is where you learn your field or what? Or do i start learning radiology during med school? I dont know a thing =-/ SOrry if these are stupid questions but i just want to become educated and know what im getting myself into.

IF there are any radiologists out there or soon to be what do you think so far? Thanks!
 
If you don't know anything about this process, how do you have any clue you want to be a radiologist?

Yes, you get paid during your residency.
 
I am not in medical school yet so I will let someone else give you the details, however, I am also interested in Radiology and as far as my research shows the timescale you can expect is as follows:

4 years Undergrad
4 years Medical School
Typically 4-5 years of Residency after med school

You will specialize and get your specific Radiology training during residency, not in medical school. Although you can do a Radiology rotation to get a feel for it before you commit.
 
I know i want to do radiology because i used to work at the hospital in radiology. I do love it and have a general idea of what schooling consists of but i just want to know details and specifics at this point in my life where im coming close to med school and choosing which college to go to.
 
Everyone learns the same thing in med school but you can pick electives..though I'm not sure which ones..during your 4th year of clinical roations. Usually med school yrs 1 & 2 are lecture & lab format and yrs 3 & 4 consists of clinical rotations at various hospitals. Then you apply to radiology residency programs. You learn radiology specifically in your residency. I think it's 5 yrs and the first is an intern year? After that you can pick a subspecialty and enter a fellowship.
 
You get paid during residency but it's not that much...not every doctor drives a Porsche.
 
Judging by your post, I'd say you're not nearly smart enough to become a radiologist, so the less you know about it the better. Trust me, it's just easier that way
 
prmdbeach17 said:
You get paid during residency but it's not that much...not every doctor drives a Porsche.
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but radiology is one of the few specialties where you will have the means (both in terms of money and time) to drive one after residency.

accordingly, be prepared to be a top high school student to get into a top undergrad, and be a top student there to get into med school. when in med school, compete with others who were also at the top of their (better) undergrads, to finally land that coveted rads spot.
 
I heard its 4 years undergrad, 4 years med school, then another 4 years residency i believe?
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5 years of residency including internship, but otherwise typically correct. Yes you get paid during residency on the order of 40-50k/year.

Im just curious as to what you learn in med school.(Obviously medicine) BUt Does everyone learn then same thing then during residency is where you learn your field or what?
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Yes.

Or do i start learning radiology during med school? I dont know a thing =-/ SOrry if these are stupid questions but i just want to become educated and know what im getting myself into.
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You will learn very little specific information to Radiology in medical school, but lots with general application to medicine and you will rotate through most of the medical specialties to get a taste for each.
 
Alex1524 said:
I dont know a thing =-/ SOrry if these are stupid questions but i just want to become educated and know what im getting myself into.
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I suggest you not do research to see what you are getting yourself into, but that you do research to see if it is even something you want to do. A quick google search will answer most of your questions. I suggest you check out the AAMC Careers in Medicine page to start. I don't mean to be negative, but you have far too many basic questions (what do you learn in medical school?) to convince me you are all that serious at this point in your education.
 
Don't worry OP. I didn't know anything about the structure of medical education when I was a college freshman.

Knowing what you want to do is far more important than knowing the details of the structure of how you get there. It is good that you are asking questions.

Fortunately convincing people on this forum that you are worthy of medicine is not a prerequisite.
 
etf said:
but radiology is one of the few specialties where you will have the means (both in terms of money and time) to drive one after residency.

accordingly, be prepared to be a top high school student to get into a top undergrad, and be a top student there to get into med school. when in med school, compete with others who were also at the top of their (better) undergrads, to finally land that coveted rads spot.
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plenty/most docs can afford a Porsche. Some might only land a Boxster, but we're talking about a Porsche, not a Lamborghini.
 
TheProwler said:
plenty/most docs can afford a Porsche. Some might only land a Boxster, but we're talking about a Porsche, not a Lamborghini.
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maybe podiatrists can, but I doubt you'll see many primary care docs driving a porsche
 
TheProwler said:
plenty/most docs can afford a Porsche. Some might only land a Boxster, but we're talking about a Porsche, not a Lamborghini.
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Maybe the subspecialists - a lot of physicians (including primary care, etc.) can't afford one.
 
Blade28 said:
Maybe the subspecialists - a lot of physicians (including primary care, etc.) can't afford one.
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Geez, guys, a $45,000 car isn't exactly upper echelon material. I'm not talking about a Carrera GT.
 
Alex1524 said:
I heard its 4 years undergrad, 4 years med school, then another 4 years residency i believe?
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According to this month's edition of The New Physician, radiologists usually do 5 years of residency, (with a minimum of 4 years spent doing diagnostic radiology, and one year of clinical training in IM, peds, surgery, OB, neuro, FP, EM or some combo of these) plus frequently one or two fellowship years thereafter.

But worrying about this while a freshman in college is not useful. Most freshmen premeds will not get into med school. Half of all people who are still premed by the time they apply will not get into med school. So you are being premature.

Sometime in med school you can start focusing in on your desired specialty. Until then, do your best and try to keep an open mind.
 
TheProwler said:
Geez, guys, a $45,000 car isn't exactly upper echelon material. I'm not talking about a Carrera GT.
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True. Forgot that it was that affordable (relatively speaking - still over twice as much as my current car!).
 
Blade28 said:
As a Rads tech?

Hang on a sec, in an earlier thread ( http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=5650609#post5650609 ) you posted:



😕
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lol You got me! I was thinking pharmacy thats why I asked about it however, i started thinking life is not easy and I feel that doing pharmacy is taking the easy way out. Becoming sucessful is not just saying hey I made it im a doctor but the journey and overcoming obstacles is what makes you sucessful. If im going to go for it im going for it big. For those of you saying dont even bother with medical school.. Thanks? And for those of you saying im to young to worry about radiology I agree after reading your posts because now I know you dont actually pick your "specialty" in med school. ( I thought you needed to go into med school knowing what your going to be) But hey by posting this thread guess what!? I became educated like I wanted to! And now i know what the deal is. Like you guys said I first need to get into med school. Thanks for those of you that helped.

"Judging by your post, I'd say you're not nearly smart enough to become a radiologist, so the less you know about it the better. Trust me, it's just easier that way"

Hey thanks alot limpkitty! Let me not go to med school because im extremely stupid. I'll be sure to take your advice. Let me just drop out of school tommorow. 👍
 
Blade28 "As a Rads tech?"... I wouldnt say a rads tech. In high school I was part of HOSA (Health Occupations Students of America) and 3 days a week we would go to the hospital and go to a different field of study. For example one day I would go to OR followed by the ER the next day(I actually saw an older woman die infront of me =-/) Then on fridays our teacher would send us individually to a doctors office or hospital depending on what field you were interested in. I chose radiology and I spent a good semester at an outpatient center where I would be with the radiology techs and so forth. I did not see the Radiologist once so I wasnt able to talk to him about anything. Overall I loved it. I guess I will worry about that later, I just need to focus on my current education and focus on getting into med school.
 
Alex1524 said:
I chose radiology and I spent a good semester at an outpatient center where I would be with the radiology techs and so forth. I did not see the Radiologist once so I wasnt able to talk to him about anything. Overall I loved it. I guess I will worry about that later, I just need to focus on my current education and focus on getting into med school.
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Seems like you aren't quite as set on radiology as your initial post suggested. I spent some time shadowing both radiologists and radiology techs. Trust me, the two are like night and day. At least as far as diagnostic radiology goes...the techs actually get to interact with patients. The docs spend all day in a dark room looking at films, dictating, reading films, dictating, reading films, dictating, filling out some paperwork, going to a meeting, reading films, dictating. You get the idea. Try to spend some time shadowing the docs while you are an undergrad.


...and one last thing, please do not call pharmacy the "easy way out." Pharmacy school is not easy and their application process is highly competitive. They will come out knowing far more than we ever will about drugs. There really isn't anything easy about it.
 
Alex I think the best thing you can do for yourself is talk to a pre-medical career advisor at your undergraduate university. They will tell you what you need to do to get into medical school. That's your next step. When you get into medical school, only then will it be time to start thinking about Radiology. There's many fields of medicine you may end up liking. Ask your undergrad advisor all the questions you have. There has to be someone there you can ask these sorts of things. If you're serious about medical school you want to start down that path right away to make yourself the most competitive applicant you can be when you apply.

If you still have specific questions, ask away. That's what SDN is here for. There are big guides that will probably answer all your questions linked from the main SDN page. Because the Radiology forum is full of senior medical students and Radiology residents, they are probably 5-10 years past where you are now and their memory of these sorts of things are hazy. The best place to ask questions about medical school will probably be the pre-allopathic forum, but in the last resort you can PM me directly.

Good luck!
 
Abilene85 said:
Trust me, the two are like night and day. At least as far as diagnostic radiology goes...the techs actually get to interact with patients. The docs spend all day in a dark room looking at films, dictating, reading films, dictating, reading films, dictating, filling out some paperwork, going to a meeting, reading films, dictating. You get the idea. Try to spend some time shadowing the docs while you are an undergrad.
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This is completely not true. There are plenty of radiologists who see patients all day, or half day or whenever they want. I plan on becoming one of those radiologists, or else I wouldn't be entering the field. Interventional Radiologists see patients ALL day, MSK/Neuro do procedures whenever they want. I'm working with an MSK rad who spends 3 days in his MSK clinic doing MSK ultrasound, joint injections, aspirations, etc. I worked with a neurointerventionalist who did spine injections and vertebro/kyphoplasties two days of the week. The beauty of radiology as a field is the diversity. One day imaging, one day clinic, one day procedures, one day teaching, one day research, one day on the beach, etc. It's not all dark room/dictating although many radiologists choose to do that because 1) it's what they enjoy most, 2) it's what brings in the most $$$.

Rad techs, I can't comment on too much. Except at the hospital where I'm rotating at now, they all look like models. I dunno why!
 
freddydpt said:
This is completely not true. There are plenty of radiologists who see patients all day, or half day or whenever they want. I plan on becoming one of those radiologists, or else I wouldn't be entering the field. Interventional Radiologists see patients ALL day, MSK/Neuro do procedures whenever they want. I'm working with an MSK rad who spends 3 days in his MSK clinic doing MSK ultrasound, joint injections, aspirations, etc. I worked with a neurointerventionalist who did spine injections and vertebro/kyphoplasties two days of the week. The beauty of radiology as a field is the diversity. One day imaging, one day clinic, one day procedures, one day teaching, one day research, one day on the beach, etc. It's not all dark room/dictating although many radiologists choose to do that because 1) it's what they enjoy most, 2) it's what brings in the most $$$.

Rad techs, I can't comment on too much. Except at the hospital where I'm rotating at now, they all look like models. I dunno why!
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Alot of folks believe that IR's dying. Better like DR if your going into rads.
 
freddydpt said:
This is completely not true. There are plenty of radiologists who see patients all day, or half day or whenever they want. I plan on becoming one of those radiologists, or else I wouldn't be entering the field. Interventional Radiologists see patients ALL day
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I realize this and should have edited my post to specify diagnostic radiologists. I made a HUGE generalization. My bad.

I just figured most people who don't know very much about careers in medicine generally think diagnostic radiology, since the other areas aren't as well known. From the first post and finding out about tech shadowing in high school, I presumed the OP is one of these people. I could be completely wrong, though.

-Goose- said:
Alot of folks believe that IR's dying. Better like DR if your going into rads.
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Really? I haven't heard this and I would think, if anything, diagnostic is in danger of disappearing.
 
How would you fiigure DR to be in jeapordy? The CAD software out there right now just doesn't seem that good... when it is used it is probably because medicare or insurance reimburses another ten bucks or something for running the image through the computer. Perhaps some also use it as malpractice backup? Anyway, we're a far cry from the day when computer image processing can rival what the human brain is capable of. The edge detection that occurs just in our retina is the equal of what our finest algorithms on the fastest computers have achieved to date.

And that is ignoring the reality that CAD software is not the only thing advancing... so are the basic technologies used to produce the imaging. This may include periods of incremental precision or speed improvements and then bursts of modality improvements as new technologies or new applications come onto the scene (like MRA or high speed CVCT for example). The tools and toys of radiologists aren't going to be stagnant. In fact, they are likely the must cutting edge of any major area in a typical hospital. Only some surgical equipment rivals that, and such equipment isn't nearly as widespread as is found in radiology.

I don't see tech's ever being given the autonomy to read films and make diagnoses like you see in primary care with RN's and PA's. Or even handle large chunks of the actual work under supervision like you see with CRNA's. Radiology lends itself to automation through dictation or other means. You can't cut the Radiologist out of the dianositic loop, and if his mechanism for making and recording that diagnosis keeps increasing in efficiency there will never be an opening for a lower paid tech to take over that process. Tech's produce the image... from there it is all radiology land, and will likely stay that way.

And I don't see other fields taking over much of the DR territory either. The pendulum had swung a bit in that direction with cards, ortho, and neuro having their own imaging machines and doing their own reads, but I think that is finally being contained with restrictions on self-referrals. And even at its peak, there weren't enough radiologists to handle all the imaging ordered, and they were being compensated quite adequately. I also think there is a malpractice issue in there somewhere that hasn't had its full day in the sun yet. And as new technologies come out, radiologists will have first crack at them... hopefully they will decide to keep new modalities inside their ballpark.

As for IR, that seems all over the place. Other specialties are taking over a lot of the procedures, but then a lot don't want to do some stuff because it doesn't pay as well and they'd rather focus on their primary specialty. IR is constantly developing new techniques... some of those stay IR, some seem to get passed on to other specialties. I think IR will stay a fastly evolving field, where only the suite of techniques routinely practiced changes, not the volume of procedures needed or performed.
 
osli said:
Anyway, we're a far cry from the day when computer image processing can rival what the human brain is capable of.
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True, but those brains do not have to be in America. With all these advances in computer technology, why not scan a body here and have it read in India for half the price? So as far as diagnostic radiology in America goes...

And I am sure this forum contains a thread or several on outsourcing concerns. I just haven't read any of them. I hope they say "It will never happen."

(I was unclear above. I didn't mean disappear disappear. Rather, no longer be a position for American physicians.)
 
And if you were referring to outsourcing, remember that for insurance and malpractice reasons that will probably be limited to US trained and licensed radiologists working abroad. While there is certainly an appeal for that situation with foreign grads or foreign born US grads, you'd have to admit that it is pretty limited. Most people want to live and work here to enjoy all that the good ol' USofA has to offer. Some night reads might go overseas in small numbers, but I suspect that US based nighthawk will continue to dominate that market. And there will always be cases where you just need "a doctor in the house." A lot of radiologists do telerads, and nighthawk works pretty well, but I doubt you'll find any of them agreeing that hospitals would run just fine without actually having radiologists in house. At least not a few. 🙂
 
You squeezed that post in between mine... 🙂

I think some imaging will go overseas, but in very restricted numbers. You're just not going to convince hordes of US grads to move somewhere else and work for less money with a promise of "you'll live like a King there." Some foreign born students will go back home, and a few of the foreign grads that are US residency trained will leave. One thing that you can't ignore is that once foreigners come here, they tend to like it. 😉
 
I agree with most of what you said osli, except the reason why telemedicine is not going to sink diagnostic radiology. A slew of state and federal prohibitions prohibit doctors from doing work from outside a state or country. Similarly, it prohibits doctors who are not certified as US doctors from doing medical work. It simply will not be reimbursed. The lawyers demand someone to sue. Regulators demand someone to be held accountable for their reads. The government will never stand for a person doing reads, other than preliminary ones, abroad, for this reason. It's bad for patient safety and it's bad for accountability.

So, it will never happen.

IR and DR are in most danger from other physicians as they control the patients. DR so far has fended this off relatively well, at least for MR/CT. IR will have a harder time fighting against neurointerventional, interventional cardio, and vascular surgery unless they find new niches.
 
I really hope you guys are right. Honestly, with health care change right around the corner who knows what is going to happen. Radiology is just one of many specialties I am interested in. If I were lucky enough to get a residency, I would be horrified to reach the working world after so many years to find out that many jobs were sent overseas and that America has an abundance of radiologists.
 
All medical specialties are potentially in danger for one reason or another. I wouldn't let this be your reason for picking or not picking a specialty.
 
Neuronix said:
All medical specialties are potentially in danger for one reason or another. I wouldn't let this be your reason for picking or not picking a specialty.
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It won't be my reason, but it will be a consideration. I definitely rank job security high on my list. This was a big factor in deciding against research for me.

By the way, your photo makes me melt. 😍
 
Alex1524 said:
Blade28 "As a Rads tech?"... I wouldnt say a rads tech. In high school I was part of HOSA (Health Occupations Students of America) and 3 days a week we would go to the hospital and go to a different field of study. For example one day I would go to OR followed by the ER the next day(I actually saw an older woman die infront of me =-/)
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Ah, OK. I understand a little more now. As Abilene85 pointed out, being a tech is VERY different than being a Rads resident/attending.
 
Neuronix said:
All medical specialties are potentially in danger for one reason or another. I wouldn't let this be your reason for picking or not picking a specialty.
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Yeah, I've been interested in CT Surg since college and you STILL don't see its bleak future scare me!

(I'm just trying to convince myself... 🙁 )
 
Neuronix said:
I agree with most of what you said osli, except the reason why telemedicine is not going to sink diagnostic radiology. A slew of state and federal prohibitions prohibit doctors from doing work from outside a state or country. Similarly, it prohibits doctors who are not certified as US doctors from doing medical work. It simply will not be reimbursed. The lawyers demand someone to sue. Regulators demand someone to be held accountable for their reads. The government will never stand for a person doing reads, other than preliminary ones, abroad, for this reason. It's bad for patient safety and it's bad for accountability.
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I think we are agreeing waaayyy more than disagreeing here, I probably just wasn't very clear. I think I rambled about how you won't get many US trained radiologists to move abroad to do telerads for pennies. What was implicit in that rambling was the assumption that we will never let foreign trained doctors make the diagnostic calls on US patients for all the reasons you stated above... liability being the primary one. They can't get insured, and without that they can't get paid. So that leaves only the small group of US trained radiologists willing to move, and I figure that is always going to be a very small group relatively speaking even if regulations permit it.

Where I suppose it did seem that you disagreed is about US trained attendings being able to practice from another country. I could be wrong, but I certainly thought there were already small operations doing exactly this for night coverage in the US. Are all of those on US territory (Hawaii, virgin islands, etc.)?
 
osli said:
I could be wrong, but I certainly thought there were already small operations doing exactly this for night coverage in the US. Are all of those on US territory (Hawaii, virgin islands, etc.)?
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That's only for prelim reads and they're all over. That service only helps because it means us rad docs have to take less call 🙂 I wonder about its future still. What if a bad clinical decision is made on a bad prelim read and they're out of the country? Whole thing could get sunk real fast if congress wanted to...
 
Thanks for clarifying that. I didn't realize it was only for prelim reads. Seems like the majority of Radiologists insist that competition is going to come from within (the US medical community), not from overseas.
 
It amazing the amount of time wasted to review and re-review this post. I will only add to the mayhem by posting this suggestion:

1. Finish college (3 years)
2. Get into med school (4 years)
3. Shadow a raidologist or two during your first two years
4. Try a radiology elective in year 3 or 4 of med school
5. Do fairly well on the boards, maybe grab some research
6. Land a radiology residency (4-5 years)
7. Grind out the next 4-5 years
7. Maybe do a fellowship year or so... (1-2 years)

From freshman year to full fledges radiology:
3+4+5+2 = 14 years

whaaa-laaa...you now have become a radiologist. Congrats....now show me your porsche.

Osteo
 
etf said:
be prepared to be a top high school student to get into a top undergrad, and be a top student there to get into med school. when in med school, compete with others who were also at the top of their (better) undergrads, to finally land that coveted rads spot.
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You do not need to be a top high school student to get into med school. You do not even have to go to a top undergraduate university to get into medical school.
You do need to go to college, have at least a 3.0 there and do well on the MCAT, to get into med school.
 
SexiMexi said:
You do need to go to college, have at least a 3.0 there and do well on the MCAT, to get into med school.
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While I agree about not having to go to the best college (I went to a no name state school), you should aim for AT LEAST a 3.5 GPA, approximately the national average for allopathic schools, for medical school. A 3.8 is closer to the GPA at the upper tier medical schools (and MD/PhD programs, if anyone cares) and will make your application much more secure.

KEEP UP YOUR GPA

is the #1 piece of advice I can offer to any incoming college student. I think prestige of undergrad is overrated and can acutally hurt you. For example, at my no name state school the competition in science classes was almost non-existant. At the University where I go to medical school the undergrads are practically killing themselves to maintain a 3.5 GPA in pre-med classes. Does the fact that they went to a big name U help them? Yeah. How much? Not enough that a 3.5 from their school will look better than a 3.8 from the no name state school in most cases. The 3.8 at the no name state school (as long as the pre med isn't very competitive there or you get ball busted for some other reason) will be easier to obtain.
 
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