Good things about awful rad job market

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radman123

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My crappy job has become pretty good since little else is open within 1000 miles.

I used to be bitter about being an employee, but have not seen a partner job advertised in my area for quite some time.

I no longer look for a new one because it is hopeless. Likely will be worse with higher expectations and worse terms.

My group had a super easy time filling a vacancy. Everyone who interviewed had few other options.

Interviewed several people on 2nd fellowships who still did not have anything lined up. So feel lucky to have a job with one fellowship.

I feel lucky to be employed where I want to live. I feel bad for the grads who have to live where they do not want to.

I feel lucky to not have to work 12 hours night shifts every other week.

I feel lucky to have more than enough to be comfortable.

I feel lucky to not be a new rad grad with huge loans and terrible job prospects.

I feel lucky to not be in the shoes of several experienced colleagues in my area who were unemployed for months and now have part time unstable gigs without benefits or insurance.
 
Where is your location?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
 
All of the fellows in my program got job offers where they wanted to be
 
All the fellows in our program got jobs in/or suburbs outside of major coastal cities where they wanted to be. And this is coming from a mid to lower tier program.

I'm sure there are people who can't land jobs where they want to be, but I can't imagine it's as extensive as these troll posts lead one to believe.
 
Go 1-2 hours outside big cities and there are several jobs available.

Inside big cities finding a job is Hard. IR jobs with frequent call and night shifts are always available.
 
shark2000 said:
Go 1-2 hours outside big cities and there are several jobs available.

Inside big cities finding a job is Hard. IR jobs with frequent call and night shifts are always available.
Click to expand...

Why is IR called in the middle of the night so often?
 
Baller MD said:
Why is IR called in the middle of the night so often?
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Depending on the type of IR practice, IR may have a busy, moderate or easy call. If you do endovascular procedures esp PAD, you will get called pretty often during the night. Cold legs, trauma and GIB always happen in midnight for reasons that I have not figured out yet. On the other hand, in a small hospital IR may barely get called after mid night. The consensus is that if you want to do high end IR, your life style is more similar to general surgery rather than Mohs surgery.

IR call may not be busy. In many practices "IR call" means weekend, evening or late day procedures like 8pm abscess drain. But still you have to be "on call" for the night in case. For example, radiation oncology never gets called for acute cord compression, but still many cancer center have someone on call.

Call can be emotionally stressful. Just knowing that you are on call for the night means that your late evening schedule is going to be different. Also geographically you can not live very far from the hospital. Esp if you live in a big city, this factor is more important than the call itself.

My intention was not to talk about IR. I just said that if you are willing to work nights or do something that many don't want to do like mammo or IR, you can get a job in most places. Otherwise, you can find a job 1-2 hours outside big cities. Some of these suburbs are affluent nice areas, but don't have the action and excitement of a big city. Things are not what OP says.

Even if you don't find your desired job right after training, it is not the end of the world. Always room to switch. Many groups prefer to hire experienced people. A friend of mine who finished his body fellowship 2 years ago in a midwest program could not find a job in Boston at first place. He got a job in Florida 1 hour away from Miami. Now he is switching his job and joining a practice INSIDE Boston. Was this ideal for him? No. But also he didn't move to a remote areas. The place that he lived in the last 2 years is a nice town that many choose to move or spend their vacation there. And more importantly, that area was his second preferred location.

Some of the OP's statements may not be totally wrong. But sorry OP, not finding a job within 1000 miles of your desirable areas is a total BS. Do you even know how far away is 1000 miles?

Good Luck.
 
When relevant and assuming the OP is being truthful, I can see responding to threads about one's bad experiences. However, starting a thread like this is pure trolling. Go over to AM if you want to commiserate in an echo chamber.
 
Can't say I care what the job market is like now or in 5 years when I'm done. Healthcare clinicians will just have more work (mainly paperwork), less pay, and worse hours. Not really planning on being on the clinical side after training.
 
49ers said:
Can't say I care what the job market is like now or in 5 years when I'm done. Healthcare clinicians will just have more work (mainly paperwork), less pay, and worse hours. Not really planning on being on the clinical side after training.
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What are you planning on doing? Just curious.
 
bronx43 said:
What are you planning on doing? Just curious.
Click to expand...

Go back to a similar job I had before med school--non-University research/statistical work. It could be gov't or private company depending on specific responsibilities. I enjoyed research more in med school than any part of med school, but don't really desire to go into an academic setting (university specifically) to do publications and teaching.

Just doing project work where months (or years) spending time developing something gave me more satisfaction than completing hundreds of microtasks a day (i.e. progress notes, H&Ps, or in radiology's case dictating a case). In rads (or medicine), you can drop your work at the end of the day and leave never to show up again and it wouldn't matter after a couple days. That's unlike being a critical part of a large project. It took me some time to get everything together for the next person when I left my job for med school (wow, now 5 years ago 🙁) so the project wouldn't get delayed.

Edit: I do like the fact there are people out there to do jobs like IM or pp rads as it's definitely important for the industry. I grew up in a household with electrical engineers and my brother a software engineer so their careers (and my own before school) were multiyear projects. NASA satellites, gas turbine powerplant control systems, etc. Got to see that stuff as a kid and seeing their work come to life was always fun. Radiology is the only field in medicine similar to what they do so that's why I chose it. Otherwise med school would've been one huge mistake.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
49ers said:
Go back to a similar job I had before med school--non-University research/statistical work. It could be gov't or private company depending on specific responsibilities. I enjoyed research more in med school than any part of med school, but don't really desire to go into an academic setting (university specifically) to do publications and teaching.

Just doing project work where months (or years) spending time developing something gave me more satisfaction than completing hundreds of microtasks a day (i.e. progress notes, H&Ps, or in radiology's case dictating a case). In rads (or medicine), you can drop your work at the end of the day and leave never to show up again and it wouldn't matter after a couple days. That's unlike being a critical part of a large project. It took me some time to get everything together for the next person when I left my job for med school (wow, now 5 years ago 🙁) so the project wouldn't get delayed.

Edit: I do like the fact there are people out there to do jobs like IM or pp rads as it's definitely important for the industry. I grew up in a household with electrical engineers and my brother a software engineer so their careers (and my own before school) were multiyear projects. NASA satellites, gas turbine powerplant control systems, etc. Got to see that stuff as a kid and seeing their work come to life was always fun. Radiology is the only field in medicine similar to what they do so that's why I chose it. Otherwise med school would've been one huge mistake.
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Wait, you're considering going back to a similar job you had before med school? Then what was the point of doing medical school?
 
bronx43 said:
Wait, you're considering going back to a similar job you had before med school? Then what was the point of doing medical school?
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My old job wasn't healthcare related. Err...kinda wasn't supposed to be until some of the research we made was picked up for use in the Medicare physician fee schedule. Going to med school was for a number of reasons (and I won't bore people with it here) with one being to open doors to more careers down the line with the clinical experience I could get from it + residency. My goal from day 1 of med school was to never retire as a physician. Some of my other non-trad med school friends that I still keep in touch with also agree with their career. Life's too short for me to reach all of my goals, but I'd like to add as many different and interesting chapters to it while I got time. 😉 The most I could see myself practicing after fellowship if an opportunity I desire now can't be found is maybe 5 years...10 max. I like to change it up.
 
Lets pretend I am looking for a new diagnostic radiology job in my state and 2 neighboring states. Cold calls were always low yield when I looked. Connections helped me get an advantage when there were openings in the group, little to open up new positions. I will start with ACR.ORG site which is the most popular jobs site:

14 jobs are returned for diagnostic radiology in the 3 states:

5 are for breast imagers so out
1 for peds imager so out
1 night shift position
1 part time non partner job
3 jobs > 45 days since posted
1 msk imager out
2 jobs would require moving 100s of miles.
0 full time day jobs within 100 miles or so that I am qualified to apply for.

Lets do rsna.org:
4 jobs in those 3 states of which 3 I am not qualified for.

Lets do practicelink.com :

26 total rad jobs (derm a mich smaller specialty has 272 jobs!!!)

1 job in the three states I am looking at for a night shift position.

Run the excersise yourself. Do not forget that there are 1000+ 1st and 2nd year fellows finishing, experienced rads changing jobs, disgruntled other rads holding their breath to get out of crappy positions, and likely others. And nothing is being done to address this by leadership. And why are there so many "trolls" with the same message. Is it a conspiracy to scare others so that they could get spots in the match? You decide for yourself.
 
All of this serves to emphasize that people have to learn to network.

As high schoolers, undergrads, and medical students, many of us (except those who have worked prior to medical school) have not been required to work on our business skills. Tests scores and applications opened the doors we wanted. Going out into the "real world" and landing a job in most industries out there requires either knowing someone or being a ridiculous applicant with a cool personality.
Radiology these days can be similar. As others have mentioned, many good jobs in radiology are not advertised.

The lesson? Put down the radiology textbook, get off the forums, and from time to time go to a local or state level radiology meeting. Start earlier rather than later. Shake some hands, smile, and be pleasant. Keep in touch with future business contacts. Learn people's names and remind them who you are. If you're uncomfortable doing this, pick up a book like "How to Win Friends and Influence People" or "How to Work a Room", and learn how to do these things.

If you don't land your dream job fresh out of fellowship, at least this way you will have contacts you can check back with. Who knows - in a few years after practicing, perhaps you'll get a call from one of those contacts you have made for a position in your "Dream City".

Or I suppose you could keep reading that textbook, get one more question right on your in-service, forget about networking, and come here to gripe about how unfair things are.
 
radman, you're assuming most jobs get advertised on sites like this. From what I understand, this is not the case and
most good jobs fill by word of mouth.
 
Wanted to add that I recently got off of a pathology elective with a private practice group in an extremely competitive city. As many of you know, their job market is quite terrible. When asking the pathologists how they ended up at the group, the two answers I got most often were, "I went to residency with Dr. X and he gave me a call when they had an opening," and, "I met Dr. X at a meeting a while back, and he recruited me here."

Also, every single person in this competitive group was AOA. Perhaps it was just coincidence.
 
radman123 said:
Lets pretend I am looking for a new diagnostic radiology job in my state and 2 neighboring states. Cold calls were always low yield when I looked. Connections helped me get an advantage when there were openings in the group, little to open up new positions. I will start with ACR.ORG site which is the most popular jobs site:

14 jobs are returned for diagnostic radiology in the 3 states:

5 are for breast imagers so out
1 for peds imager so out
1 night shift position
1 part time non partner job
3 jobs > 45 days since posted
1 msk imager out
2 jobs would require moving 100s of miles.
0 full time day jobs within 100 miles or so that I am qualified to apply for.

Lets do rsna.org:
4 jobs in those 3 states of which 3 I am not qualified for.

Lets do practicelink.com :

26 total rad jobs (derm a mich smaller specialty has 272 jobs!!!)

1 job in the three states I am looking at for a night shift position.

Run the excersise yourself. Do not forget that there are 1000+ 1st and 2nd year fellows finishing, experienced rads changing jobs, disgruntled other rads holding their breath to get out of crappy positions, and likely others. And nothing is being done to address this by leadership. And why are there so many "trolls" with the same message. Is it a conspiracy to scare others so that they could get spots in the match? You decide for yourself.
Click to expand...

So what fellowship have you done?

Which part of the county are you at, if you want to share that information.
 
Where I am or what fellowship I have has little relevance to the problem. Run the hypothetical search for your location, results will be similar. Remember that few jobs available will have numerous applicants.

Unadvertised jobs will only be available to you if you are lucky to know the right people. And even those jobs have multiple candidates.

Specialties with good to balanced job markets have 100s of ads listed - see practicelink.com for example as jobs are broken down by specialty. Radiology with 1000+ grads has 26 jobs while derm with what 300-400 grads has 272!!

This awful surplus has led to shrinking salaries, lower quality of few jobs available, fewer career choices, declining working conditions and decreased stability for all existing rads.

Yet medical students in love with the rotation of radiology and/or hate of clinical medicine in medical school continue to plow forward. Wonder when the leadership of radiology will take notice? When there are > 50% FMGs, 20%+ unfilled spots? As long as academic departments are staffed, all is well in their minds.
 
radman123 said:
Where I am or what fellowship I have has little relevance to the problem. Run the hypothetical search for your location, results will be similar. Remember that few jobs available will have numerous applicants.

Unadvertised jobs will only be available to you if you are lucky to know the right people. And even those jobs have multiple candidates.

Specialties with good to balanced job markets have 100s of ads listed - see practicelink.com for example as jobs are broken down by specialty. Radiology with 1000+ grads has 26 jobs while derm with what 300-400 grads has 272!!

This awful surplus has led to shrinking salaries, lower quality of few jobs available, fewer career choices, declining working conditions and decreased stability for all existing rads.

Yet medical students in love with the rotation of radiology and/or hate of clinical medicine in medical school continue to plow forward. Wonder when the leadership of radiology will take notice? When there are > 50% FMGs, 20%+ unfilled spots? As long as academic departments are staffed, all is well in their minds.
Click to expand...

Was it really necessary to start yet another doom-and-gloom thread? Instead of lamenting about your understandably frustrating and scary situation, find a solution. Going on SDN and starting such threads cannot be a smart use of your time...

I wish you all the best finding your ideal job, I really do, but enough already dude.
 
radman123 said:
Unadvertised jobs will only be available to you if you are lucky to know the right people. And even those jobs have multiple candidates.

Specialties with good to balanced job markets have 100s of ads listed - see practicelink.com for example as jobs are broken down by specialty. Radiology with 1000+ grads has 26 jobs while derm with what 300-400 grads has 272!!

This awful surplus has led to shrinking salaries, lower quality of few jobs available, fewer career choices, declining working conditions and decreased stability for all existing rads.
Click to expand...
That's because derm does a good job of protecting their specialty by keeping their numbers low, while rads has done the opposite and opened tons of new programs and added spots to old programs to help cover the volume during boom times. Instead of working hard to protect the specialty, the powers that be have allowed this problem to arise without giving themselves any course to correct for it. The value of the average rads spot has significantly decreased. That doesn't mean that people at good residencies don't get decent jobs, though the jobs are not as lucrative as they once were; however, it does decrease the competitiveness of radiology residency as a whole and increase the competitiveness of the post-residency job market.
 
"If you aren't willing to move hundreds of miles for your career, you aren't all that committed."

I really hate when people say things like this:

People have commitments other than their jobs. They have spouses (many of whom are in careers that won't allow them to relocate), families, social networks in place. It may not mean much to a single medical student, but uprooting you and your families life is a big deal to many in their mid 30s

Just because people are stubborn about wanting to stay where their lives are doesn't mean they aren't committed to their careers.
 
cowme said:
"If you aren't willing to move hundreds of miles for your career, you aren't all that committed."

I really hate when people say things like this:

People have commitments other than their jobs. They have spouses (many of whom are in careers that won't allow them to relocate), families, social networks in place. It may not mean much to a single medical student, but uprooting you and your families life is a big deal to many in their mid 30s

Just because people are stubborn about wanting to stay where their lives are doesn't mean they aren't committed to their careers.
Click to expand...

That's just because you're clearly not dedicated to your career ;-)

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
 
Spending hundreds of thousands of dollars and more than a decade of training to be a corporate/hospital employee is extremely high risk. I never thought about this as a medical student. Being an employee of any kind is high risk. Your income can go to zero at anytime. The imaging boom has gone bust and old radiologists don't retire (especially when the young ones do all the night call). I am just guessing but it may take 3-5 years for things to turn around. The ROI for a radiology residency has certainly taken a turn for the worse. 300k in debt for a nonpartner job paying 250k? 6 years of training? FPs do 3 years and can make 250k but the NPs and PAs are out for their jobs. Medicine is not a great place to be right now. The US has spent way too much on healthcare for way too long.
 
bcovert said:
Spending hundreds of thousands of dollars and more than a decade of training to be a corporate/hospital employee is extremely high risk. I never thought about this as a medical student. Being an employee of any kind is high risk. Your income can go to zero at anytime. The imaging boom has gone bust and old radiologists don't retire (especially when the young ones do all the night call). I am just guessing but it may take 3-5 years for things to turn around. The ROI for a radiology residency has certainly taken a turn for the worse. 300k in debt for a nonpartner job paying 250k? 6 years of training? FPs do 3 years and can make 250k but the NPs and PAs are out for their jobs. Medicine is not a great place to be right now. The US has spent way too much on healthcare for way too long.
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I don't understand how someone can complain about being a hospital employee and then cite being an FP as an alternative. FPs are employed to a much greater degree than rads.
 
qwerty89 said:
I don't understand how someone can complain about being a hospital employee and then cite being an FP as an alternative. FPs are employed to a much greater degree than rads.
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Agreed. My family medicine clerkship preceptor, who is a partner in his private practice, says that they are having an extremely difficult time getting young blood in their practice. All the local residents are going into hospital employee gigs instead of joining private practices so they don't have to run a practice.

I also don't know of any family docs who pull in 250k unless they're business wizards and have an army of midlevels at their disposal, and I can hardly suspect PCPs in "desirable areas" could manage to make that much. I certainly don't have the business sense to succeed in that department.
 
There's life outside "desirable areas"...

I know of plenty of family med docs making 250K+, and one in particular who makes 900k and isn't a CEO or anything weird like that because he does everything [ob/ER/& FM clinic]
 
orangejello said:
There's life outside "desirable areas"...

I know of plenty of family med docs making 250K+, and one in particular who makes 900k and isn't a CEO or anything weird like that because he does everything [ob/ER/& FM clinic]
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...and sleeps 2 hour a day. In the call room. And has three ex-wives. And probably a boat.
 
orangejello said:
There's life outside "desirable areas"...

I know of plenty of family med docs making 250K+, and one in particular who makes 900k and isn't a CEO or anything weird like that because he does everything [ob/ER/& FM clinic]
Click to expand...

What an incredible exception to the rule.
 
orangejello said:
There's life outside "desirable areas"...

I know of plenty of family med docs making 250K+, and one in particular who makes 900k and isn't a CEO or anything weird like that because he does everything [ob/ER/& FM clinic]
Click to expand...

900K income. Only three groups of people in medicine can make that money:

1- Super busy high RVU surgeons like spine surgeons or orthopods. Happens only to 1 out of every 50 of them who spend 70-80 hours a week in OR. Not to devalue the skills, but that one guy is the best example of the right person, in the right place at the right time. If you are even the best in your field, more likely you will not get to that point, since too many factors are involved. People usually see only the one who makes 1 million and think this is the norm.

2- Business savvy doctors, irrelevant of the field. Most doctors with high incomes are in this group. I know a neurologist who makes over a mil easily. He has his own center with 15 other neurologists (and other doctors) working for him. He does everything from MRI, echocardiograms and DEXAs to flu vaccination and pap smear in his center. I bet even if he hadn't gone to college, he would have been as rich or even more now.

3- Healthcare admin work like CEO or chairman of a big department.
 
I don't think that's correct, I saw how much oncologists and ophthalmologists make on the recently released Medicare payment info!!
 
Percent of Unmatched US Seniors in 2014:

Neurosurg: 17.7%
ENT: 17.6%
Plastics: 17.3%
Ortho: 17.1%
Derm: 9.1%
Gen Surg: 8.7%
OBGYN: 7.1%
Rad Onc: 6.0%
Psych: 3.6%
EM: 3.4%
Family Med: 3.1%
Peds: 3.0%
Neurology: 2.6%
IM: 2.0%
Anesthesia: 2.0%
Radiology: 1.0%
 
womp said:
Percent of Unmatched US Seniors in 2014:

Neurosurg: 17.7%
ENT: 17.6%
Plastics: 17.3%
Ortho: 17.1%
Derm: 9.1%
Gen Surg: 8.7%
OBGYN: 7.1%
Rad Onc: 6.0%
Psych: 3.6%
EM: 3.4%
Family Med: 3.1%
Peds: 3.0%
Neurology: 2.6%
IM: 2.0%
Anesthesia: 2.0%
Radiology: 1.0%
Click to expand...

Is this the part where someone says radiology is less competitive than family medicine?
 
How Competitive Is the Match for Radiology Residency? Present View and Historical Perspective
Chen J, Heller M
JACR, May 2014

Purpose
Interest in radiology as a career among US medical students has changed. The aim of this study was to investigate the recent and historical trends in residency applications and how they have affected competitiveness in obtaining a position.

Methods
Statistics published by the National Resident Matching Program in “Results and Data: Main Residency Match” for 1991 to 2013 were analyzed.

Results
The number of radiology residency positions has trended upward over the past 23 years; however, the number of applicants from US medical schools has been widely variable. The number of applicants peaked in 2009 but has since decreased every year. The number of positions per US senior applicant (PPUSA) is a judge of specialty competitiveness on a supply-and-demand basis. A lower PPUSA indicates a more competitive specialty. Radiology saw its most competitive year in 2001, with only 0.91 PPUSA. PPUSA has been on the rise every year since 2009. From 2009 to 2013, the number of residency positions increased by 56, but there were 241 fewer US senior medical students preferring radiology. In 2013, there were 1,143 residency positions available for only 845 US senior medical students who preferred the specialty. The PPUSA was 1.35, making 2013 the least competitive year in obtaining a radiology residency position since 1998. Over the past 23 years, 5.5% of all US senior medical students have applied to radiology for residency. Interest reached an all-time high in 2009, at almost 7%. In 2013, only 4.8% of all US seniors preferred radiology, the lowest since 1999. The historical (1991–2013), current (2011–2013), and most recent (2013) PPUSAs for radiology were 1.19, 1.29, and 1.35, respectively. For comparison, the current PPUSAs for the following specialties were: 0.74 for plastic surgery, 0.83 for orthopedic surgery, 0.95 for dermatology, 1.10 for general surgery, 1.24 for obstetrics and gynecology, 1.31 for anesthesiology, 1.42 for pediatrics, and 1.80 for internal medicine (1.80).

Conclusions
Although radiology residency positions have continued to increase, interest among US seniors has dropped every year since 2009. The 2013 match was the least competitive since 1998. Over the past 3 years, the competitiveness of matching radiology on a supply-and-demand basis has been close to that of obstetrics and gynecology and anesthesiology.

http://www.jacr.org/article/S1546-1440(13)00766-7/abstract?cc=y?cc=y
 
So...just for fun, I decided to play with the numbers. I'll explain the numbers that aren't self-explanatory.

Adjusted USMLE Step 1 is just the difference of the score from that applicant group and the mean score for matched US seniors in 2011 (it was 226).

The adjusted unmatched rate is the # of US seniors that were unmatched minus the # of positions that went unfilled divided by the # of US senior applicants.

The C-score (C is for competitiveness, in case you couldn't infer that) = (Adjusted Step 1) x [(Applicant-to-position ratio) + (Adjusted unmatched rate)]. I also calculated this without Step 1, because the Step 1 data was really old, but the only reliable data I had to work with.

Despite the relative unreliability of the Step 1 data, I think the C-score is more reflective of actual competitiveness when you include the Step 1 data, because those numbers better capture the self-selective nature of the US senior applicant pool for a given specialty. According to somewhat reliable sources, there is a general trend upward in Step 1 scores for most specialties, but that most specialties are going up by similar amounts...so maybe the numbers here aren't all that unreliable.

*DISCLAIMER: I made these scores and adjustments up in some spare time on a rainy afternoon. I was also a little lazy and didn't tabulate all of the subcategories of the major specialties or the combined residencies (e.g. Med-Peds, EM-FM). Therefore...these numbers shouldn't be taken too seriously. This is purely intended to illustrate a point that I wanted to make about how rads as a whole may be less competitive, but I believe it is more self-selective than it used to be (i.e. not many lower-quality candidates vying for low-tier slots "just to get a rads spot").


Edit: table formatting got screwed up when I posted it...reposting as an attached file
 

Attachments

Puff-of-Snow Sign said:
So...just for fun, I decided to play with the numbers. I'll explain the numbers that aren't self-explanatory.

Adjusted USMLE Step 1 is just the difference of the score from that applicant group and the mean score for matched US seniors in 2011 (it was 226).

The adjusted unmatched rate is the # of US seniors that were unmatched minus the # of positions that went unfilled divided by the # of US senior applicants.

The C-score (C is for competitiveness, in case you couldn't infer that) = (Adjusted Step 1) x [(Applicant-to-position ratio) + (Adjusted unmatched rate)]. I also calculated this without Step 1, because the Step 1 data was really old, but the only reliable data I had to work with.

Despite the relative unreliability of the Step 1 data, I think the C-score is more reflective of actual competitiveness when you include the Step 1 data, because those numbers better capture the self-selective nature of the US senior applicant pool for a given specialty. According to somewhat reliable sources, there is a general trend upward in Step 1 scores for most specialties, but that most specialties are going up by similar amounts...so maybe the numbers here aren't all that unreliable.

*DISCLAIMER: I made these scores and adjustments up in some spare time on a rainy afternoon. I was also a little lazy and didn't tabulate all of the subcategories of the major specialties or the combined residencies (e.g. Med-Peds, EM-FM). Therefore...these numbers shouldn't be taken too seriously. This is purely intended to illustrate a point that I wanted to make about how rads as a whole may be less competitive, but I believe it is more self-selective than it used to be (i.e. not many lower-quality candidates vying for low-tier slots "just to get a rads spot").


Edit: table formatting got screwed up when I posted it...reposting as an attached file
Click to expand...
Well done!
 
Wow, Andrew Schlafly, founder of Conservapedia, was one of the debators.
 
DermViser said:
I would hardly trust Dr. Saurabh Jha as having your specialty's best interest at heart. If it were up to him, he would be ok with flooding the U.S. market with IMG trained radiologists:

Click to expand...


It is sad to see Radiology being overrun by foreign grads, especially in such brand name institutions. Truly pathetic. What is the point of having such strict requirements for entrance to med school to overrun this country with foreign grads? It's one of the most absurd things in the world. Canada has it right - restricting access to foreigners only after nationals have obtained a residency.
 
Chickenandwaffles said:
It is sad to see Radiology being overrun by foreign grads, especially in such brand name institutions. Truly pathetic. What is the point of having such strict requirements for entrance to med school to overrun this country with foreign grads? It's one of the most absurd things in the world. Canada has it right - restricting access to foreigners only after nationals have obtained a residency.
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I think that's one thing that's different about the ABR vs all the other specialty boards (ABIM, ABD, ASA, etc.), the ABR allows IMG radiologists to become board certified by hopping from fellowship to fellowship. The rest of us make them redo residency (as should be the case for all IMGs).

Yes, thru out the debate he was quite sanctimonious.
 
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