MS4 seeking some advice

[radsprospect]

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Hello everyone,

I apologize if this is in the FAQ, as I did not see it there. I'm an MS4 deciding what I want to go into. The only rotation where I actually found myself enjoying the work and wishing I could do what that attending/PGY5 does, was radiology. I love the technology, love the amount of knowledge you have to know, absolutely love how so many management plans are based on your assessment, and the lack of rounding and bs (no offense to other fields) really appealed to me. I did a 24 hour call just to see how it would be, and I actually enjoyed staying up 24 hours, something that's never happened in medical school thus far.

However, I keep hearing things about how going into radiology now is not a good idea and I was wondering if these concerns are valid. I'm willing to do a fellowship if I have to. I also would like a good lifestyle as an attending (~50 hour weeks, 250-300k salary), as I would want to have time for my family. Are these concerns about the future of radiology valid? Should I still pursue this. I really don't know what else I would do. Are my hopes for lifestyle realistic with the current radiology landscape?

Thank you very much to anyone who responds.

 

[witzelsucht]

nah, radiology will still be around. i don't know if radiologists will be pulling in 300k a year in 5 years, but if you'd rather make 180 as a radiologist (hypothetical) than 300k as a surgeon or a cardiologist, then, you kinda already have your answer. if you can still make 300k as a radiologist when you are mid career, then that's just gravy

 

[CorneliaSt]

Because radiology is the most technologically driven field in medicine, things can (and will) change quickly over the course of one's training and career. Because of that, one should go into this field with eyes wide open. There are many exciting innovations such as molecular imaging, 3D printing, Imaging 3.0, etc. that could be a boon for the field down the line. But there is also AI, commoditization, and turf wars among other things as lurking threats to the field as well. No one can predict how the field will evolve which can cause unease but also excitement. If you truly enjoy radiology, it's still a good field in my opinion. And FWIW, the job market appears to be improving according to attendings and fellows on auntminnie.

 

[Rate Rise of 0]

Market is improving. I am about to start fellowship and have 3+ job offers all with starting pay more than you posted with 10 + weeks of vaca and a fellowship stipend. Don't believe everything you read in the forums about the future and current job market. People on the forums complain a lot and probably never had any real jobs. If you are normal and have worked well in other jobs you should have no problem finding a job. If you are weird and complain a lot you will have trouble. Attitude is huge in radiology. Keep a good attitude and knock down the stack.

 

[Fab5Hill33]

The radiology "doom and gloom" is so overrated among medical students it's simply astonishing. At the risk of sounding arrogant, Radiology will always do well financially compared to most other subspecialties. Cardiology has suffered just as much as Radiology in terms of reimbursement cuts. Most surgeons don't make as much as radiologists. Obviously there those that do (ortho for one). But this out of control rumor about radiology not being a "good idea" to go into needs to be put to bed.

nah, radiology will still be around. i don't know if radiologists will be pulling in 300k a year in 5 years, but if you'd rather make 180 as a radiologist (hypothetical) than 300k as a surgeon or a cardiologist, then, you kinda already have your answer. if you can still make 300k as a radiologist when you are mid career, then that's just gravy

 

[Rate Rise of 0]

I agree with the above post. there will always be jobs in radiology that reimburse well. Most rads take a crazy amount of vacation compared to other specialties. My friend is a urologist and we got comparable offers for startingsalary but I get 3x the vaca he gets so in essence compared to other specialties rads probably get paid the most per week worked and on non call days most staff can leave at 5 on the dot. It is sad that people can propagate so much doom and gloom about the specialty.

When you go looking for a job put yourself out there and pickup the phone. Most of my colleagues spend so much time on their education but halfA#% the job search and just take what is out there on the ACR website. Pickup the phone and make something happen.

 

[radsprospect]

Thank you so much everyone. This was very reassuring. I've spoken to multiple residents about this, and the vast majority agree that the doom and gloom is overrated. You guys have only confirmed it. I'm excited to pursue residency in radiology. This is very refreshing to hear. Thanks!

 

[RadsFTW123]

Market is improving. I am about to start fellowship and have 3+ job offers all with starting pay more than you posted with 10 + weeks of vaca and a fellowship stipend. Don't believe everything you read in the forums about the future and current job market. People on the forums complain a lot and probably never had any real jobs. If you are normal and have worked well in other jobs you should have no problem finding a job. If you are weird and complain a lot you will have trouble. Attitude is huge in radiology. Keep a good attitude and knock down the stack.

This is great to hear, and most people I know have done reasonably well, but pretty impressive to get a fellowship stipend to be honest. Are you in a non-metro? What area of the country (i.e Midwest, Coast, etc.); no specific details needed. Also, in your experience, do you still expect to get a pretty sizable bump eventually when you become partner or have the partner and starting pay come a lot closer together? Thanks!

 

[Rate Rise of 0]

Metro in the Midwest with multiple hospital systems. 1-2 year partner tracks with non partner pay anywhere from 60-80% of partner pay.

 

[Radlad]

Hello everyone,

I apologize if this is in the FAQ, as I did not see it there. I'm an MS4 deciding what I want to go into. The only rotation where I actually found myself enjoying the work and wishing I could do what that attending/PGY5 does, was radiology. I love the technology, love the amount of knowledge you have to know, absolutely love how so many management plans are based on your assessment, and the lack of rounding and bs (no offense to other fields) really appealed to me. I did a 24 hour call just to see how it would be, and I actually enjoyed staying up 24 hours, something that's never happened in medical school thus far.

However, I keep hearing things about how going into radiology now is not a good idea and I was wondering if these concerns are valid. I'm willing to do a fellowship if I have to. I also would like a good lifestyle as an attending (~50 hour weeks, 250-300k salary), as I would want to have time for my family. Are these concerns about the future of radiology valid? Should I still pursue this. I really don't know what else I would do. Are my hopes for lifestyle realistic with the current radiology landscape?

Thank you very much to anyone who responds.

Hello, radsprospect! It's great to hear that you're interested in radiology! Before continuing to write anything, I'll just say that I matched into radiology this year... just so that you know whose insights your taking into account and so that you take things with a grain of salt.

I actually had an experience similar to yours. I enjoyed working with the residents and attendings at my home institution - they were great educators and incredibly friendly. I enjoyed the sheer amount of knowledge required and the power that came along with it: I loved how the surgeons would actually come down to the reading room and get radiologists' final impressions before proceeding with surgery; I loved the nuances of language that would dictate the course of many a patient's management. Needless to say, I was crazy about the technology and the ability to look inside the body non-invasively. As for quality of life and balance, I did notice that radiologists tended to be very well-rounded individuals having an interesting repertoire of hobbies/talents... but that was a subordinate consideration.

I know this may come off as trite advice, but ensure that you're going into something for the love of it. 🙂 In choosing a specialty, I asked myself... what if (1) my workload were to increase and/or (2) I had to take a salary (in real terms) lower than current benchmarks after completing residency... would I still go for the same thing? I know it sounds a little premature to say that I would given that I've not even started my intern year, but somehow asking that question seemed to solidify my decision and dispel many fears. Also, consider that (1) attendings actually may work more hours than the ones you mention for similar pay and (2) that you may need to end up in a private practice job with long hours before an opportunity to enter academia opens up.

When hearing advice about not going into one specialty or another, take things with a grain of salt. For one, all specialties are in a crunch with new legislative changes to healthcare. Secondly, sample sizes of n=2 ecstatic/disgruntled residents/attendings should not a specialty decide. 🙂

Lastly, it's difficult to predict where radiology is headed, but rest assured that information technology will play a crucial role in complementing radiologists' abilities. There's actually a nice article about deep learning either in either an RSNA or JACR issue a month or two back. VERY SPECIFIC REFERENCE. Haha! No, seriously... try Googling it. I think that a good argument is made for information technology being embraced to assist diagnosis and find new pathological patterns/correlations with imaging findings difficult for human eyes to capture and synthesize. Will technology be responsible for making final diagnoses and make a radiologist's job obsolete in our lifetimes? Very unlikely... but possible in a few decades. The reality is much of what medicine does is algorithmic - applying guidelines to 90% of patients. Wherever there's an algorithm for physicians to follow, there will be a computer that can do it better and assume that function. This also applies to a lot of the primary care specialties out there. Our jobs rest in figuring out a way to find sub-algorithms for the remaining 10%, staying up to date (no pun intended) with new advances in care, innovating, researching, and delivering healthcare compassionately. Ok, I'm off my soapbox now. Food for thought. Best of luck, radsprospect!

 

[radsprospect]

Hello, radsprospect! It's great to hear that you're interested in radiology! Before continuing to write anything, I'll just say that I matched into radiology this year... just so that you know whose insights your taking into account and so that you take things with a grain of salt.

I actually had an experience similar to yours. I enjoyed working with the residents and attendings at my home institution - they were great educators and incredibly friendly. I enjoyed the sheer amount of knowledge required and the power that came along with it: I loved how the surgeons would actually come down to the reading room and get radiologists' final impressions before proceeding with surgery; I loved the nuances of language that would dictate the course of many a patient's management. Needless to say, I was crazy about the technology and the ability to look inside the body non-invasively. As for quality of life and balance, I did notice that radiologists tended to be very well-rounded individuals having an interesting repertoire of hobbies/talents... but that was a subordinate consideration.

I know this may come off as trite advice, but ensure that you're going into something for the love of it. 🙂 In choosing a specialty, I asked myself... what if (1) my workload were to increase and/or (2) I had to take a salary (in real terms) lower than current benchmarks after completing residency... would I still go for the same thing? I know it sounds a little premature to say that I would given that I've not even started my intern year, but somehow asking that question seemed to solidify my decision and dispel many fears. Also, consider that (1) attendings actually may work more hours than the ones you mention for similar pay and (2) that you may need to end up in a private practice job with long hours before an opportunity to enter academia opens up.

When hearing advice about not going into one specialty or another, take things with a grain of salt. For one, all specialties are in a crunch with new legislative changes to healthcare. Secondly, sample sizes of n=2 ecstatic/disgruntled residents/attendings should not a specialty decide. 🙂

Lastly, it's difficult to predict where radiology is headed, but rest assured that information technology will play a crucial role in complementing radiologists' abilities. There's actually a nice article about deep learning either in either an RSNA or JACR issue a month or two back. VERY SPECIFIC REFERENCE. Haha! No, seriously... try Googling it. I think that a good argument is made for information technology being embraced to assist diagnosis and find new pathological patterns/correlations with imaging findings difficult for human eyes to capture and synthesize. Will technology be responsible for making final diagnoses and make a radiologist's job obsolete in our lifetimes? Very unlikely... but possible in a few decades. The reality is much of what medicine does is algorithmic - applying guidelines to 90% of patients. Wherever there's an algorithm for physicians to follow, there will be a computer that can do it better and assume that function. This also applies to a lot of the primary care specialties out there. Our jobs rest in figuring out a way to find sub-algorithms for the remaining 10%, staying up to date (no pun intended) with new advances in care, innovating, researching, and delivering healthcare compassionately. Ok, I'm off my soapbox now. Food for thought. Best of luck, radsprospect!

 

[radsprospect]

Thank you for your reply! It's actually quite interesting that you mentioned the things you did for your interest for radiology. I had to go back and read my post to make sure you weren't cutting and pasting my thoughts haha!
I actually agree with you and have asked myself how I would react to those changes if they were to come about. And honestly I don't think I'd mind, because I'd much rather be doing this that Any other field of medicine (based on my limited experience thus far).

The future is uncertain but there's only so much you can control. Might as well do something you like and hope for the best, and find security knowing it could be a lot worse and you could be doing something you hate.

Congrats on matching. Hope to be in your shoes this time next year!

 

[g8orlife]

nah, radiology will still be around. i don't know if radiologists will be pulling in 300k a year in 5 years, but if you'd rather make 180 as a radiologist (hypothetical) than 300k as a surgeon or a cardiologist, then, you kinda already have your answer. if you can still make 300k as a radiologist when you are mid career, then that's just gravy

This was my thought process.