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NBPME Plans to Implement Changes Geared Towards Vision 2015

Incoming APMA President and Chair of Vision 2015 Ross Taubman, D.P.M. and Vision 2015 committee member Bruce McLaughlin, D.P.M. met recently with The National Board of Podiatric Medical Education (NBPME’s) President Jeffrey Gerland, D.P.M. and NBPME’s Executive Director Charles W. Gibley, Jr., Ph.D. to discuss the role of the NBPME in relation to the APMA's Vision 2015 initiative.

Left to right: Charles W. Gibley, Jr, PhD., Bruce McLaughlin, DPM, Ross Taubman, DPM, and Jeffrey Gerland, DPM.

With the advent of a positive result from a recent independent audit, which validates the NBPME testing protocol, the group felt that the Board is well-positioned to test podiatric medical students in accord with vision 2015.

The National Board will begin a strategic planning process towards Vision 2015 at our mid-winter meeting in April, 2008. That will include a comparison of the content of NBPME’s Part I and II Examinations and the content of Steps 1 and 2 of USMLE. In a continuing evolution of our testing process, beginning in 2008, three new item formats will be used for the Part I and II examinations (in addition to the standard 4-choice, single answer, multiple-choice item). Any of the following types of formats may appear on a single examination: 1) A “check-all-that-apply” format. 2) A “drag and drop” format. and 3) An “image-click” format.

Source: PM news online

 

[iceman69]

what exactly is the 2015 vision? Maybe I'm a bit daft, but I can't find out what this is. Thanks.

 

[cool_vkb]

what exactly is the 2015 vision? Maybe I'm a bit daft, but I can't find out what this is. Thanks.

There are like 10-15 threads on it. Its now called Vision 2015 but back in my pre-pod days it was referred to as "Resolution 2015" . Just do a Resolution 2015 keyword search. you will get all the threads.

Here's one below;

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=466235&highlight=2015

 

[cool_vkb]

NBPME Plans to Implement Changes Geared Towards Vision 2015

Incoming APMA President and Chair of Vision 2015 Ross Taubman, D.P.M. and Vision 2015 committee member Bruce McLaughlin, D.P.M. met recently with The National Board of Podiatric Medical Education (NBPME’s) President Jeffrey Gerland, D.P.M. and NBPME’s Executive Director Charles W. Gibley, Jr., Ph.D. to discuss the role of the NBPME in relation to the APMA's Vision 2015 initiative.

Left to right: Charles W. Gibley, Jr, PhD., Bruce McLaughlin, DPM, Ross Taubman, DPM, and Jeffrey Gerland, DPM.

With the advent of a positive result from a recent independent audit, which validates the NBPME testing protocol, the group felt that the Board is well-positioned to test podiatric medical students in accord with vision 2015.

The National Board will begin a strategic planning process towards Vision 2015 at our mid-winter meeting in April, 2008. That will include a comparison of the content of NBPME’s Part I and II Examinations and the content of Steps 1 and 2 of USMLE. In a continuing evolution of our testing process, beginning in 2008, three new item formats will be used for the Part I and II examinations (in addition to the standard 4-choice, single answer, multiple-choice item). Any of the following types of formats may appear on a single examination: 1) A “check-all-that-apply” format. 2) A “drag and drop” format. and 3) An “image-click” format.

Source: PM news online

Why cant they just end NBPME and make us also take USMLE. Ofcourse there will be some content which we didnt studied (gyno,psych,etc) and may be they can substitue that with "Special focus on Lower extremity".

Then in that way everyone (MDs,DPMs) can be judged on same scale of performance and easy to get respect and equality.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Why cant they just end NBPME and make us also take USMLE. Ofcourse there will be some content which we didnt studied (gyno,psych,etc) and may be they can substitue that with "Special focus on Lower extremity".

Then in that way everyone (MDs,DPMs) can be judged on same scale of performance and easy to get respect and equality.

Why can't we just get rid of oil? Why can't we live on the Moon?

Some things sound good but are not practical. Why would the USMLE want us? Why would they take the time to rewrite their test? What benefit is there to MDs?

If a merger ever happened, COMLEX would be a much easier merger. But again, how does it benefit them?

 

[cool_vkb]

Why can't we just get rid of oil? Why can't we live on the Moon?

Some things sound good but are not practical. Why would the USMLE want us? Why would they take the time to rewrite their test? What benefit is there to MDs?

If a merger ever happened, COMLEX would be a much easier merger. But again, how does it benefit them?

Now why would COMLEX be an easy merger? Even DOs take USMLEs. Ever heard a MD taking COMLEX.

Few days back me and my med school friend were talking abt Podiatry. he hadnt really known Podiatry that well. I was explaining him the admission standards and said him Scholl's and DMU's average MCAT scores. And since MCAT is like the common currency in DO, MD and DPM schools. hearing that some students with MCAT average of 25 apply to DPM schools. he was able to understand what kind of academic students apply to DPM programs.

when i say to M1s that i have a 24 MCAT. They know what 24 on an MCAT means and respect me for that. Now if i have taken GRE and said oh i got 1400 in GRE or DAT. It would have been different. then again i have to explain them what GRE was, why i took GRE if we all are of same school family, why 1400 is considered highests,etc.

I think when we graduate and meet a MD who wants to know what kind of people enter Podiatry resdency (interms of competitivenes). a DPM can simply say the average USMLE scores and the person can get the idea.

Just as we have a common language for better understanding among different countries and cultures. i think a USMLE will do the same thing for us. I mean you only said one of your friends took USMLE just to prove a point that he is no less than a MD. having a USMLE scores gives other MDs an idea on what we are and what is our academic standard.

Even NBPME can also achieve what iam saying. But many dont even know NBPME leave alone its contents. So it takes so much time again to explain others what NBPME is and how the scores are comparable to USMLE,etc stuff.

COMLEX is also good but when we are changing for easiness to understand. A USMLE will launch us global. it doesnt matter iam in aussie or canada or japan. Since all know USMLE and its score. Plus we are not of Osteopathy origins. We are just a specialized branch of regular allopathy i.e MDs and USMLE. and even DOs take USMLE. again why go the pain of running around explaining people what COMLEX is, what their scores mean relating to USMLE,etc.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Now why would COMLEX be an easy merger? Even DOs take USMLEs. Ever heard a MD taking COMLEX.

Few days back me and my med school friend were talking abt Podiatry. he hadnt really known Podiatry that well. I was explaining him the admission standards and said him Scholl's and DMU's average MCAT scores. And since MCAT is like the common currency in DO, MD and DPM schools. hearing that some students with MCAT average of 25 apply to DPM schools. he was able to understand what kind of academic students apply to DPM programs.

when i say to M1s that i have a 24 MCAT. They know what 24 on an MCAT means and respect me for that. Now if i have taken GRE and said oh i got 1400 in GRE or DAT. It would have been different. then again i have to explain them what GRE was, why i took GRE if we all are of same school family, why 1400 is considered highests,etc.

I think when we graduate and meet a MD who wants to know what kind of people enter Podiatry resdency (interms of competitivenes). a DPM can simply say the average USMLE scores and the person can get the idea.

Just as we have a common language for better understanding among different countries and cultures. i think a USMLE will do the same thing for us. I mean you only said one of your friends took USMLE just to prove a point that he is no less than a MD. having a USMLE scores gives other MDs an idea on what we are and what is our academic standard.

Even NBPME can also achieve what iam saying. But many dont even know NBPME leave alone its contents. So it takes so much time again to explain others what NBPME is and how the scores are comparable to USMLE,etc stuff.

COMLEX is also good but when we are changing for easiness to understand. A USMLE will launch us global. it doesnt matter iam in aussie or canada or japan. Since all know USMLE and its score. Plus we are not of Osteopathy origins. We are just a specialized branch of regular allopathy i.e MDs and USMLE. and even DOs take USMLE. again why go the pain of running around explaining people what COMLEX is, what their scores mean relating to USMLE,etc.

Why is it easier? The COMLEX already has a sepcial area, i.e. osetopathy. It can easily be removed and replaced with LE anatomy. COMLEX would have something to gain b/c it would increase their power.

I understand the theory but what I was alluding to is that it is easy in theory but hard in practice. Think of it in reverse if you were USMLE why would you allow it?

 

[cool_vkb]

Why is it easier? The COMLEX already has a sepcial area, i.e. osetopathy. It can easily be removed and replaced with LE anatomy. COMLEX would have something to gain b/c it would increase their power.

I understand the theory but what I was alluding to is that it is easy in theory but hard in practice. Think of it in reverse if you were USMLE why would you allow it?

If its abt MD-DPM feelings then i dont know whether USMLE will allow or not.

But financially it would be very profitable for them. just think additional 800 new applicants each year to them. 800 * $1000 = $800000. 🙂

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

If its abt MD-DPM feelings then i dont know whether USMLE will allow or not.

But financially it would be very profitable for them. just think additional 800 new applicants each year to them. 800 * $1000 = $800000. 🙂

1) Why would we want to pay $1000 for the test when NBPME charges $900 and the USMLE costs $650?

2) I don't think that they need the money. The AAMC is hoping to increase the number of MD students to about 19,000 graduates per year in 2012 (http://www.aamc.org/newsroom/reporter/april06/expansion.htm). They are sitting at about 16, 000 right now. (http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2007/schoolgrads0207.htm). That is 19, 000 * $650 + any DOs that sit for the test = $12,350,000 + all DOs. In other words they don't care about our money it is peanuts.

Again, you are not being realistic. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by MD-DPM feelings, but I have never met an MD that isn't extremely polite. It is hard to understand that DPM students and young DPMs are not treated the same way any longer. It varies state by state, but I have no interest in working in NY. Many of these changes that people want to make are b/c they never did a residency or want to do more than what they were trained 10 years ago. Many pods were trained to cut nails, give injections, and trim calluses, and now they want more. I doubt that the top pods care about vision 2015.

 

[cool_vkb]

1)
It varies state by state, but I have no interest in working in NY. Many of these changes that people want to make are b/c they never did a residency or want to do more than what they were trained 10 years ago. Many pods were trained to cut nails, give injections, and trim calluses, and now they want more. I doubt that the top pods care about vision 2015.

Oh got it boss! thanks.

 

[Feli]

...Many of these changes that people want to make are b/c they never did a residency or want to do more than what they were trained 10 years ago. Many pods were trained to cut nails, give injections, and trim calluses, and now they want more. I doubt that the top pods care about vision 2015.

👍

Yep... I basically agree. Unless you want to practice in a state with very narrow scope, 2015 won't really have a whole lot of effect on most current pod students. It's still important to get a uniform nationwide scope of practice and uniform minimumal training models, though. Public and professional awareness of what pods are trained to do is important.

Regardless of scope, you will only really do what you are comfortable with, trained for, and granted hospital privileges for. You get privileges by providing documentation of your residency training and case logs. Just because the scope in NY may someday include ankle fracture repair by DPMs doesn't mean that a pod who did not train in RF trauma would suddenly be scrubbing in for a PER-4.

 

[dns3110]

I'm confused on why they are doing the check-all-that-apply method. According to the USMLE website, they only use "the one best answer" method. So if they are trying to make our test more like the USMLE, why are they adding that. Just curious.

 

[krabmas]

I'm confused on why they are doing the check-all-that-apply method. According to the USMLE website, they only use "the one best answer" method. So if they are trying to make our test more like the USMLE, why are they adding that. Just curious.

It is just another case of podiatry as a whole trying to be like "them" but not really understanding that it is not about a test that will make us like them. It is in the schooling and training.

Podiatry has this notion that if the test is harder then it is better. Even if the training and schooling do not improve they still think that making a test harder somehow improves the profession.

They'll just have to curve it more.

 

[JEWmongous]

What about making the test graded (numerically) instead of just pass/fail? Wouldn't that honestly be one of the most important changes? I mean they can change the test all they want to be closer to the USMLE/COMLEX, but at least these other examinations give out scores.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

It is just another case of podiatry as a whole trying to be like "them" but not really understanding that it is not about a test that will make us like them. It is in the schooling and training.

Podiatry has this notion that if the test is harder then it is better. Even if the training and schooling do not improve they still think that making a test harder somehow improves the profession.

They'll just have to curve it more.

It is the cart in front of the horse theory. I completely agree and was having this same conversation about this same topic today.

What about making the test graded (numerically) instead of just pass/fail? Wouldn't that honestly be one of the most important changes? I mean they can change the test all they want to be closer to the USMLE/COMLEX, but at least these other examinations give out scores.

I agree give out a number and then make the average scores and pass rates for each school public. Nothing like public humiliation, alumni complaints and admissions prblems to push a school to improve its academics.

 

[cool_vkb]

I agree give out a number and then make the average scores and pass rates for each school public. Nothing like public humiliation, alumni complaints and admissions prblems to push a school to improve its academics.

👍

 

[Stafocker]

👍

👍

 

[cool_vkb]

👍

👍👍🙂

 

[Ski Bum]

It is just another case of podiatry as a whole trying to be like "them" but not really understanding that it is not about a test that will make us like them. It is in the schooling and training.

Podiatry has this notion that if the test is harder then it is better. Even if the training and schooling do not improve they still think that making a test harder somehow improves the profession.

They'll just have to curve it more.

i couldnt agree more to this...our schools are not holding up there end of the deal. The entire NBPME fiasco was suspicious and why did we not have a formal review of our schools and curriculum at the same time of the test. The NBPME exams are fair, always have been...but students preparedness is what has varied. Hmm...couldnt our schools improve with a formal review? Too bad all the deans are a part of the APMA and that will never happen. It is too easy to point the finger in other places...

just a thought

 

[Feli]

What about making the test graded (numerically) instead of just pass/fail? Wouldn't that honestly be one of the most important changes?...

I totally agree, and I brought that up at our APMA visitation meeting last semester.

A scored NBPME exam (at least pt1) would serve a dual purpose:

1) Students would study a lot harder for a scored exam as opposed to a pass/fail minumum competency exam that they know ~80% of students will pass. Studying harder would obviously benefit both the individual student's knowledge base and the profession overall.

2) Residency programs would have an equalizer in considering students (just lke colleges have the SAT/ACT, grad schools have GRE/MCAT/etc, and MD/DO residencies have USMLE/COMPLEX scores). With some pod schools grading on % system, some grading with +/-, and some grading on straight letter grades, there is confusion. Some schools have notoriously high gpas, and others have lower average gpa. Also, some pod schools curve, some have re-takes, some give "D" grades, some use a lot of old tests, etc. It quickly becomes clear that a 3.5gpa at pod school X probably is not the same at school Y or Z.