to stay or to go?

[beary]

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Hey gang,
I am wondering your thoughts on the pros/cons of doing residency training at the same institution as med school. I'm at Iowa and am very interested in staying here (esp. after reading Jeff2005 and deschutes positive interview experiences!) but have heard from some people that it can hurt your career if you do all your training at the same institution. I am very interested in doing research and plan on staying in academics. Basically, do you think it is important to go somewhere else just for the sake of going somewhere else? Thanks!

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Hey gang,
I am wondering your thoughts on the pros/cons of doing residency training at the same institution as med school. I'm at Iowa and am very interested in staying here (esp. after reading Jeff2005 and deschutes positive interview experiences!) but have heard from some people that it can hurt your career if you do all your training at the same institution. I am very interested in doing research and plan on staying in academics. Basically, do you think it is important to go somewhere else just for the sake of going somewhere else? Thanks!

First, I'll admit that I'm not the most knowledgable on this issue but I've had some thoughts about this recently.

IMHO, the whole issue of "should I stay or should I go now" I think is one of personal preference. If you have family and don't want to relocate, why shouldn't one stay at the same location for residency? If you're at an institution you really really like, I say by all means stay there unless there is somewhere else that is clearly better for you.

As a fellow academic-wannabe (are you an mudphud?), I think that the work we do in residency, fellowship/postdoc, and afterwards will be of far more importance than the fact that one did training at the same institution. Plus, in the future, there will be other chances to move around. There are plenty of academicians who stuck to one place during their days of training...and they are successful (because they made it!).

The one drawback to staying at one place for training is that you miss out on exposure to how other places do things differently. By training at different places, you have the opportunity to see how different places approach different issues differently. You then have the liberty to pick and choose what you like best about each and incorporate that into your own practice. But this is more of a personal development issue and not a qualification issue; I don't think that will have too much effect on your qualifications.

 

[jeff2005]

You're fortunate that your home school has a great program and if you want to stay you should. That being said I have run into some people who have done undergrad, med school, residency, and fellowship all at the same place. That may be too much. I think it is a good idea to see how things are done at other institutions and meet other people in the field. And it gives you a much more interesting resume.

 

[Doctor B.]

We've had several residents who did med school and residency here and went on to have sucessful careers. I don't think it is a problem, particularly at Iowa which has a great program.

One of my faculty advises residents to pursue fellowship at a different institution than their residency in order to get a different perspective on signing out cases. It's not a bad idea but if one has a family, it's hard to uproot them for just 1 year.

 

[LADoc00]

Dude Im sure Iowa is a blast, but do you want be there your WHOLE life?

Develop professional contacts elsewhere. Trust me, this is the best advice you will ever get. Ever..EVeR.

 

[yaah]

I think almost every path department you will visit on your interview will have at least one attending who has completed the full training at the same institution. Many will actually have done undergrad there. They are no more or less likely to be excellent pathologists. Some just enjoy the continuity.

There is something to be said for a change of scenery and viewpoint. Different places do things differently. And you may not experience the full variety by hanging around one institution.

Programs also like to get applicants from all over. Rarely do they fill with all internal candidates.

I am itinerant. College, med school, and now residency are all in different states. I like it that way. For now.

 

[cytoborg]

Is it just me, or is there a (mis)perception that if you stay at one institution too long, you are somehow less qualified than others? Meaning that it was easier for you to get into the program, or get a job, being an internal candidate? I would not want this possibility haunting my subconscious.

Other than that, it seems like if it's more convenient to stay for personal reasons and it is also a strong program, then the advantages would outweigh the disadvantages.

 

[yaah]

It is not necessarily easier. Sometimes it's actually harder. For example, here this year there are 7-8 (or more, I dunno) graduating seniors going into path. There will be I think 6 spots for new residents next year. The PD doesn't like to take too many local candidates, which is true most places. Thus, it can be harder to actually match at your home institution. I know last year at Indiana there were something like 7-8 graduating seniors, all of whom wanted to stay at Indiana. I may be wrong, but that was the perception from an Indiana student I met during my interviews.

Thus, my suggestion is do what you want to do. Don't let people tell you you shouldn't stay home, and don't let them tell you you should. I got some heat from local Mass. pathologists for not wanting to train in Boston especially when they were fairly aggressive in recruiting me. Alas, I didn't want to stay there that much.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

It is not necessarily easier. Sometimes it's actually harder. For example, here this year there are 7-8 (or more, I dunno) graduating seniors going into path. There will be I think 6 spots for new residents next year. The PD doesn't like to take too many local candidates, which is true most places.

Actually I think there are only 6 people from our school going into path. One is probably gonna try to do an outside-the-match deal cuz his wife is a PGY-1 here. One other guy is doing CP only and last I heard, didn't even apply here (he's the guy who did the long presentation on H. pylori). But he changes his mind a lot so I have no clue what he's doing. The other girl you met, who did path the same time he did, flaked out and went into general surgery. I so knew she wouldn't do path...and my buddy called it! Looks like I owe someone $5! So that leaves the rest of us, 4 total who are applying in the match where Michigan is one of our choices to rank.

From discussing the "staying in Michigan" issue, I've talked to 2 of them and compared notes. I'll put it this way...I don't think he's jumping head over heels to try to keep us here. He asked all of us what we got in Internal Medicine when we all individually met with him (literally that was the first question he asked me!). We all got a Pass...clearly that's the wrong answer. He also asked us our board scores as well. Personally, I don't think we're big red dots on his radar...either that or he's really a stoic person which is also a possibility.

Whatever...we are well qualified and very passionate about entering the field of pathology for various reasons. And we will all get wicked pissah at the bar on Match Day.

 

[deschutes]

He asked all of us what we got in Internal Medicine when we all individually met with him. We all got a Pass...clearly that's the wrong answer. He also asked us our board scores as well.

That explains a lot!

 

[deschutes]

To keep on-topic, I think "young" (i.e. college, residency) is the best time to be moving around. The major issue with much moving around that you need time to build up a reputation of any sort.

Of course, this can work either way.

 

[yaah]

Actually I think there are only 6 people from our school going into path. One is probably gonna try to do an outside-the-match deal cuz his wife is a PGY-1 here. One other guy is doing CP only and last I heard, didn't even apply here (he's the guy who did the long presentation on H. pylori). But he changes his mind a lot so I have no clue what he's doing. The other girl you met, who did path the same time he did, flaked out and went into general surgery. I so knew she wouldn't do path...and my buddy called it! Looks like I owe someone $5! So that leaves the rest of us, 4 total who are applying in the match where Michigan is one of our choices to rank.

I had a feeling she would switch sides. She liked forensics but I think the possibility of doing the rest of path wasn't as appealing.

And in regards to that "probably going to do an outside the match deal" you can probably call that a little more than probably. He is a researcher doing AP only, apparently. Here is here at the VA now and told one of the attendings he will be here next year. The wife is CP only. So, as she says, together they will make a complete pathologist.

But yes the PD is somewhat stoic. He has many years experience doing this stuff and dealing with med students, so he has seen it all. He never asked me any of my grades. Of course, it was on my transcript.

 

[Doctor B.]

Other than that, it seems like if it's more convenient to stay for personal reasons and it is also a strong program, then the advantages would outweigh the disadvantages.

I agree. If Iowa feels like the right place, regardless if it's your home institution or not, rank it #1.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

I had a feeling she would switch sides. She liked forensics but I think the possibility of doing the rest of path wasn't as appealing.

Yup.

And in regards to that "probably going to do an outside the match deal" you can probably call that a little more than probably. He is a researcher doing AP only, apparently. Here is here at the VA now and told one of the attendings he will be here next year. The wife is CP only. So, as she says, together they will make a complete pathologist.

Yup.

But yes the PD is somewhat stoic. He has many years experience doing this stuff and dealing with med students, so he has seen it all. He never asked me any of my grades. Of course, it was on my transcript.

Yup.