Upperline Podiatry

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Mia McBhul

New Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
May 11, 2020
Messages
5
Reaction score
4
Any current or former employees of Upperline podiatry care to give their feedback and share their experiences?

I interviewed with them ~2years ago and was told by the working providers to avoid it. However, it could very well just be that specific location. Now, i find myself in a situation where my current practice is being bought out by Upperline, which means I'll end up working for them after all in a few months. Not quite sure what to look forward to.
 
Any current or former employees of Upperline podiatry care to give their feedback and share their experiences?

I interviewed with them ~2years ago and was told by the working providers to avoid it. However, it could very well just be that specific location. Now, i find myself in a situation where my current practice is being bought out by Upperline, which means I'll end up working for them after all in a few months. Not quite sure what to look forward to.
Bear in mind thos is 2nd hand from former classmates

Typical PE. moderate or slightly better salary, pushing to see more, refer to within the system. I wouldn't do it if I wasn't desperate but unfortunately it's about 60% of going jobs now
PE is a ****ing scourge
 
Any current or former employees of Upperline podiatry care to give their feedback and share their experiences?

I interviewed with them ~2years ago and was told by the working providers to avoid it. However, it could very well just be that specific location. Now, i find myself in a situation where my current practice is being bought out by Upperline, which means I'll end up working for them after all in a few months. Not quite sure what to look forward to.
As podiatrist 40 plus years-avoid it. You get shaft and they get mine!
 
Yes I smelled trouble when i interviewed with them. Especially when the current practicing providers were openly voicing their discontent to me. I do appreciate their frankness, and I was under the impression that it might've just been that specific location.

Thought I had dodged a bullet when I refused their offer. Jokes on me that Upperline going on a buying spree acquiring practices all over the nation.

I would love to hear from someone that might have had a positive experience working for Upperline
 
Jokes on me that Upperline going on a buying spree acquiring practices all over the nation.
Joke will be on them when they can’t find a new PE firm to unload the debt they’re currently loading up on. Then they go bankrupt. There’s always a bag holder at the end.

Multiple stories of PE’s faulty strategy across many different sectors in the US economy.

Stay away as far as you can. They rely on podiatry’s poor job market to pay you beans and load you up with volume resulting in crummy patient care.
 
My partner showed me a feature in APMA magazine, which I would not otherwise be reading, about PE supergroups. Unfortunately, I can't find it online. The overall tone was that "well it could be bad, it could be good, ymmv." The emphasis was on the implications of PP owners selling to these groups, with really no discussion of what incoming associates can expect from these groups. However, they did have lengthy quotes from Patrick DeHeer and Lowell Weil Jr. Thanks APMA! 👍

I do think that the pendulum will eventually swing back in favor of smaller practices. I think as supergroups get bigger, the type of DPM who gravitates towards these jobs will be those who are complacent about their careers (no offense intended to @Mia McBhul ) whereas the more ambitious DPMs will strike off on their own. In the long run, the better doctors are going to be in the solo and small group practices. OK fine toenail care is toenail care, but if PE wants to corner the market on toenails, I'll let them win that fight. For any care that requires real brainwork as well as skills for coordinating patient care and time management, the small group/solo practice is going to run more productively and more efficiently, with better attention to patient outcomes.

In addition to differentials in intrinsic productivity, there's also a principal-agent problem that I think can only be addressed so well through production incentives for the associates.

So Mia if this is all you can find, try it out for a while but save up to plan your next move.
 
...dodged a bullet ... working for Upperline
Hmmm, funny you should say that:

 
If you look down on the threads here, you'll see one called "Private equity/ venture cap. podiatry".

Go to page 2 (page 1 is basically off topic lol) and scroll down my October comment where I asked a bunch of questions and then the discussion progressed with others experiences and opinions of PE practices. The first response on page 3 (that I wrote) explains how PE groups in healthcare function, and why they will screw ALL of these HUNDREDS of practices and podiatrists eventually.

All of these practice owners that sold to them screwed the profession.

I imagine that in podiatry, much like any small healthcare practice even just 10 years ago (PCP/dental/anasthesia/pharm), used to be a good small business where the owner retires, sells to an associate, the associate works and then retires, sells to his associate, gets a partner to expand, so on and so forth. Even if the older docs were selling their practices at what a lot of you guys on this forum consider inflated prices, I'd rather pay an inflated price for a practice and make 50% of everything I bring in for the next 35 years versus this alternate universe that we have created where private equity firms overpay the old guys to sell, and now we have no chance of taking over an older practice and being business owners, all while making 30% of collections.

Is there any chance that you can just buy him out? If you've been working there for a few years, you probably already know how to run everything and since it's an existing practice, you don't have to worry about loss of cash flow by becoming an owner.
 
Joke will be on them when they can’t find a new PE firm to unload the debt they’re currently loading up on. Then they go bankrupt. There’s always a bag holder at the end.

With a never ending supply of new grads in need of employment, they can skim 20% off the top of these practices in perpetuity. If they deviate just slightly from the typical PE acquisition/profit model they could keep this thing afloat for quite awhile
 
What about Alevio and Balance Health? Do they suck too?
 
...All of these practice owners that sold to them screwed the profession.

I imagine that in podiatry, much like any small healthcare practice even just 10 years ago (PCP/dental/anasthesia/pharm), used to be a good small business where the owner retires, sells to an associate, the associate works and then retires, sells to his associate, gets a partner to expand, so on and so forth. Even if the older docs were selling their practices at what a lot of you guys on this forum consider inflated prices, I'd rather pay an inflated price for a practice and make 50% of everything I bring in for the next 35 years versus this alternate universe that we have created where private equity firms overpay the old guys to sell, and now we have no chance of taking over an older practice and being business owners, all while making 30% of collections.
...
You severely underestimate how easy it is to start a PP for podiatry. It's also not as expensive as you think.

This is not dent where you need hundred$ of thousand$ in equipment.
This is not plastic surgery or retina where you are rare and need a very wiiide refer base from docs and word of mouth (and a surgery center?).
This is not even ophtho or neuro or something where you need a whole lot of diagnostic equipment.
Besides podiatry or FP, the only easier or cheaper office to start might be ... maybe psych??? (one or even no staff for psych, no instruments)

...Anyone selling pod offices to supergroups is just getting paid. No problem with that. C'est la vie.
It is very easy to compete with supergroups. Don't be afraid of it. They are generally weak and not staffed well (docs or support staff). They'll overbook or overbill or have many issues as they are profit-oriented and not truly local. It's like starting a new restaurant and competing against Dennys... sure, some people want fast, but it's not quality.

The ones to be careful of going against are actually longstanding successful small or medium pod groups with good docs. That is usually hard to break into those demographics, they likely have refer networks fairly entrenched in that city/area. They also will go to the mat for refers, reputation, that area.... but supergroups just close underperforming locations or move docs around or open/buy offices often. The supergroups are run by typically crap to average leadership and rely on ads and fast appointments, but the smaller networked pod groups with refer sources secured can be much more formidable (same for a skilled and likeable and dominant hospital DPM in the area... tread carefully unless there is plenty to go around).

And sure, there is the TINY chance of a well-run supergroup nearby, but it's unlikely. Most large and supergroups have average to below docs, underpay them, and any good doc likely won't stay long. Supergroups are usually just a start point for young DPMs (while they look to leave to greener pastures)... or maybe a forever home at the supergroup for lackluster DPMs. Bottom line: there is just no way to to get many, many, many good staff and docs at all locations for any supergroup. It does not happen. People generally HATE going through a phone tree, having poor customer service, dealing with an office whose staff and docs are clearly just there for a paycheck with a lot of turnover. Some people like that or don't mind it, and those are not your target customers anyways.

There is plenty to go around. Remember when Leonidas laughed at the Persians when they had an army of slaves but he had free men... super soldiers? Think of it that way: supergroups are nonsense. "The wolf does not concern himself with the opinion of sheep." PCPs would nearly always prefer to refer to a local doc than a corporation (hospital PCPs probably have to refer to a hospital pod... but in general, independent or MSG or other PCPs will prefer small/solo PP that communicates to supergroup with revolving door of podiatrists, typically). It's the same for people living there in the area: they'll usually prefer a doc with longevity who is attached to - and well-liked in - the area.

For a fast litmus test, call my office and ask when routine non-injury and non-wound new patients are seen (bunion, skin or nail, flat foot whatever), and then call the nearby supergroup.. they'll probably overbook you for same day or in their many cancel and no-show spots. Tells you all you need to know. 🙂

comic book movie GIF
 
Last edited:
With a never ending supply of new grads in need of employment, they can skim 20% off the top of these practices in perpetuity. If they deviate just slightly from the typical PE acquisition/profit model they could keep this thing afloat for quite awhile

If they did that, then there was no point in private equity getting involved at all. There are plenty (or were plenty at this point lol) of private practice owners that could've bought out a local retiring guy and hired an associate and keep that model going for five or 10 or 20 or 50 practices. Which I think is what Village in Georgia and Weil in wherever they are from were before private equity came into the mix.

With PE, if they're not buying more to inflate their assets to sell at a profit, or gutting the existing business while taking out loans against it to payback investors, then it fails. Anything else doesn't need their involvement. There's plenty of rich people who can buy a bunch of businesses and skim off the top without gutting them or selling them to the next guy and still make a profit that's worth it.
 
What about Alevio and Balance Health? Do they suck too?
Never heard of Alevio, but it just looks like any RFC SNF/ALF/at-home mobile company, like PPG or Aria Care. I will say that it does seem odd to me that they list who the providers are because those other, much larger companies that I mentioned don't list what podiatrists works for them.

Balance is just like any other huge private equity firm. They've bought out a ton in the West Coast and deserts.

But I think within the next 10 years, it will create good opportunity for a small or solo private practice where patient satisfaction and camaraderie still matters because I honestly think all these private equity podiatry groups are going to go bankrupt (probably on purpose to payback investors) or they're going to realize it's not worth it and start gutting the places for scraps. Either scenario allows the small private practice to flourish once again.
 
The ones to be careful of going against are actually longstanding successful small or medium pod groups with good docs. That is usually hard to break into those demographics, they likely have refer networks fairly entrenched in that city/area.
This is very relevant to the starting a practice thread as well, but hey, say retina or ophtho and I appear.

The market is such a big factor. If you can’t make inroads, then you’re DOA. For example, my medium(?) size group has an area outside our metro with a big catchment where we did big business unopposed. We had someone set up solo nearby a couple years ago who had grown up in the vicinity and trained with one of the local cataract docs. Nice but kinda nerdy and boring (tbf that’s most of us eye folks).

Didn’t understand that labor is kinda rough out there and was offering fast food wages. Eventually hired one of our former employees who reached out to our staff. Sadly he didn’t know that individual was fired for serious issues, so that was a lead balloon. Initially we saw a drop in referrals from the practice with connections, but that bounced back pretty fast despite them writing a bunch of their own old school Chat GPT reviews.

As far as I can tell they’re maybe doing ok, so good for them, but yeah, have to read the room.
 
Looks like I'm cornered. No other option on the table than opening my own shop.

Appreciate everyone's insight
Don't do it recklessly though. If you gotta work for a while to save and find the right spot then it's ok.
 
I get out. Get word out podiatry BS from school to graduation and beyond!!
 
About how much would one need to start a practice? 50K should be sufficient?
50k is fine, but you might be able to do it with 30 + line of credit. Work on a business plan and see who will fund you. Good luck!!!
 
The problem is they want you to feel cornered and then they usually trap you into a pretty restrictive contract with a wide non-compete. They need that cheap labor. They know what they’re doing, unfortunately.
 
The problem is they want you to feel cornered and then they usually trap you into a pretty restrictive contract with a wide non-compete. They need that cheap labor. They know what they’re doing, unfortunately.
Upperline founded by previous APMA presidents and current APMA leadership!!!

More schools, more residency programs, more graduates.....
 
Top