More info on the CALI situtation

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DrMushroomFoot said:
Respectfully, I would have to disagree.

For starters, I am at the top of my class at DMU. Not once during my first year have I ever scored below the DO average on any exam (I have yet to score less than 90% on any exam).

Although I hate to admit this, there is in fact a difference in intelligence between the DO and DPM's at DMU.

Two main reason for this conclusion. First, every class basic science class that we (DPM) have taken with the DOs, only once did we have an exam where the DPM average may have been higher than the DO average (reason why I say MAY is because while the DPM average was higher than the DPM+DO+PA average. We have no way of knowing whether the PA's brought down the average or in fact the DPMs scored higher than the DOs) Thus far, DO class average has consistently been higher than the DPM average, this is a FACT.

Second reason is that DPM students here at DMU are taking LESS classes than the DO students, another FACT. While it is true that DPM students take the vast majority of our classes with the DO during our 1st year, DO students are taking additional classes on top of our courseload (for example, OMM, ethics, behavior medicine). Common sense suggests that more classes equals less time for studying and preparing for your exams. There is absolutely NO excuse for the DPM students to be scoring lower than the DOs as we have MUCH MORE time to study due to fewer classes.

This is looking at the DPM and DO class as a whole. Obviously the top students in the DPM class can be considered to have similar intelligence.
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Very honest post.

TimmyT said:
At Western, our averages have been lower than the DOs as well but we have more on our plate than they do. While they take OMM, we take PMP (which has all our podiatry classes clumped together into one class a semester). My roommate is a 2nd year med student and he tells me all the time that our program is much harder than theirs. Their OMM course is very hands on and not very rigorous. He only studies for his mid-term and final 2 days before the practical and passes easily. Since we have MORE material and LESS time than the DOs our averages have been consistently 10 points BELOW their averages. But our Podiatry program has built a very good reputation on campus. Everyone at Western knows the Podiatry program is the hardest hands down.
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I really don't want to start an off topic war here, but I just wanted to state to you (and the below poster) that comments like this just look insecure and really don't help with any arguments. I also find it odd that DPM students, as a group, yearn for the physician parity but then belittle certain aspects of the DO curriculum and state that they undergo the "hardest" training.

Additionally, I just wanted to state that OMM is a unique course when it comes to studying as you spend (at my school at least) anywhere from 4-6 hours in a hands on lab practicing the techniques and then are tested both on a practical level (and it's very difficult to really study the techniques for more than a few hours if you've been practicing them for weeks in an OMM lab and they vary based on diagnosis) and a written level (where you're simply asked varying questions about the techniques you've already learned on a practical level), and both require ongoing practice and really not as much traditional "sit down and cram a few days before."

Furthermore, until someone has taken both the PMP and OMM courses, it's all conjecture about which is harder (as is your roommates comments). Finally, we can talk in circles all day long, but I think the numbers speak for themselves, and as you said, the DPM averages are consistently 10 points lower than the DO averages. To me, those are facts.

zane870 said:
Not to mention the DO class is full of "gunners"😀

Our program is more rigorous and we have 35 people in our program compared to 220ish in the DO program. A few less than stellar grades on a given test affects our average more than the DO. We in podiatry joke about the OMM class the DOs have. They pretty much just strip down half naked and give each other messages:laugh:
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Again, no need for the OMM comments if you haven't gone through the course, but like I said above, numbers talk and you said yourself the averages for the DPM are consistently lower than the DO. Any reasoning as to why seems like a justification in my book, but I don't see where you'd conclude that it means the DPM program/students are superior, that the DO class is full of "gunners," or how this type of attitude justifies the need for parity??
 
Pod Newman said:
More info. http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2011/06/27/prl20627.htm.
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Whole situation still seems odd to me. In the LCME bylaws it states that they can only accredit MD granting institutions in the US. Since the article states that the standards will be reviewed at the LCME level and THEN the programs will be approved by the LCME, I really think there may be more truth to these programs simply becoming MD schools (and gives clout to those who question why the Ortho groups and AMA would get on board).

I also find the comments from Dr. Block interesting:

"We deserve to be under the same umbrella," Block said. "The biggest problem is the medical community is not familiar with how educated we are and how well-trained podiatrists are today."

(... this part is not from Block ...)
In a May 2009 position statement, the AOFAS said podiatrists provide a valuable service when they function within their education and training. To achieve parity in credentialing to other physician specialties, podiatric graduates should be required to pass the U.S. Medical Licensing Examination, podiatric residency programs should be accredited by the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education, and podiatric residents should take a certification exam prepared by an American Board of Medical Specialties member board, the AOFAS said.

Block has advocated for 30 years that podiatry give up the doctor of podiatric medicine degree and transition to MD and DO degrees. "I believe it's inevitable that podiatrists will eventually be in the same tent as other allopathic specialties. We're currently discriminated against because of our degree," he said.
 
fivescrew said:
hahah. The difference being we had the ability to come to an understanding like adults, this person just seems like he wants to troll for no reason other than to do it.

The whole question of who is smarter or which school is harder is all subjective. I personally think(without having gone to either) that from a purely educational outlook podiatry school would be harder because not only are you learning about whole body medicine\physiology you are also getting intense education in a complex area of the body.

This is purely my opinion based off what I've learned through studying both and from the study habits of my DO student brother who studies no more than a few hours a day and still manages to be near the top of his class.
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I agree! It is relative. What's hard for me might be a walk in the park for you. I thought all the basic science classes were hard and therefore I treated it likewise. Just because our curriculum was a little more intense than our DO counterparts doesn't mean that we are any better. Most of them probably would have excelled and done better than I did. I look at it as me getting as much as I can from my tuition money.
 
FiveOVicryl said:
Interesting. This must be the "immaturity" that Kidsfeet so wisely pointed out.

First off, this parity issue is a bid deal and a hot topic on SDN. There are threads on this subject in the Allopathic, Osteopathic, and Podiatry forums.

MD>DO>DPM in terms of entrance stats, that is so obvious to any objective individual. Obviously since you scored a 19 on the MCAT objectivity is out the window. Seriously? A 19 MCAT screams I'm super duper smart and I deserve to be a doctor!!! Wake up, not everyone in this world is special and deserves to be a physician.
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You pompus little immature twit. I did score a 19. And then a 26.What does that have to do with anything. I got in. Are you in a school yet. Until then, shut your trap.
 
RATM2010 said:
You pompus little immature twit. I did score a 19. And then a 26.What does that have to do with anything. I got in. Are you in a school yet. Until then, shut your trap.
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Rise above the mud slinging, please.
 
RATM2010 said:
You pompus little immature twit. I did score a 19. And then a 26.What does that have to do with anything. I got in. Are you in a school yet. Until then, shut your trap.
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Instead of telling Kidsfeet to ignore your post, why don't you sit back and think about whether there is any validity to his comments?
 
PADPM said:
Instead of telling Kidsfeet to ignore your post, why don't you sit back and think about whether there is any validity to his comments?
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Thanks PADPM. I really think that some need to start realizing that they are representing us as professionals, and that the high school mentality won't get them very far in this small community.
 
Let's face it and let's be honest. The majority of the posts in this entire thread have been ridiculous, childish and insulting.

Posts that are going back and forth regarding which curriculum is the more difficult, who is studying harder, who is working harder, etc., is simply a waste of time. Maybe some of the medical students aren't working as hard because the material is coming easier to them. Maybe their courses are set up differently. Who knows and who cares. At the end of the day, they will have an MD degree or a DO degree and you will have a DPM degree no matter WHO worked harder, put in more hours, etc.

You have/had the opportunity to obtain that MD/DO degree, so if you believe the grass in greener on the other side, the answer is simple. However, in the interim, you can not bury your head in the sand and walk away from the facts (even though I AM a DPM).

And the FACTS will support that despite who you may perceive as working harder, having tougher classes, etc., the requirements at the present time to be accepted to MD schools in the U.S. are greater than DO schools which are greater than DPM schools. Don't even bother debating that issue, it's simply factual.

Making "fun" of the OMM course or comparing it to a course in massage is an insult to any DO. It would be no different than someone believing that your course in podiatric medicine was limited to nail cutting.

So end this senseless debate. If you are in podiatry school, work hard and worry about YOUR future and don't make comparisons with other medical professional students, because in reality, you aren't going to gain much ground. Don't try to impress others regarding your educational process by denigrating theirs.

Be happy with your career choice and don't worry about justifying it to anyone.
 
Kidsfeet said:
Thanks PADPM. I really think that some need to start realizing that they are representing us as professionals, and that the high school mentality won't get them very far in this small community.
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Completely 100% agree. When I read posts like the above I get upset. It makes our profession look bad. I wish they would think about that before making such remarks.
 
PADPM said:
Let's face it and let's be honest. The majority of the posts in this entire thread have been ridiculous, childish and insulting.

Posts that are going back and forth regarding which curriculum is the more difficult, who is studying harder, who is working harder, etc., is simply a waste of time. Maybe some of the medical students aren't working as hard because the material is coming easier to them. Maybe their courses are set up differently. Who knows and who cares. At the end of the day, they will have an MD degree or a DO degree and you will have a DPM degree no matter WHO worked harder, put in more hours, etc.

You have/had the opportunity to obtain that MD/DO degree, so if you believe the grass in greener on the other side, the answer is simple. However, in the interim, you can not bury your head in the sand and walk away from the facts (even though I AM a DPM).

And the FACTS will support that despite who you may perceive as working harder, having tougher classes, etc., the requirements at the present time to be accepted to MD schools in the U.S. are greater than DO schools which are greater than DPM schools. Don't even bother debating that issue, it's simply factual.

Making "fun" of the OMM course or comparing it to a course in massage is an insult to any DO. It would be no different than someone believing that your course in podiatric medicine was limited to nail cutting.

So end this senseless debate. If you are in podiatry school, work hard and worry about YOUR future and don't make comparisons with other medical professional students, because in reality, you aren't going to gain much ground. Don't try to impress others regarding your educational process by denigrating theirs.

Be happy with your career choice and don't worry about justifying it to anyone.
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:bow: :bow: :claps: :claps:
 
PADPM said:
Let's face it and let's be honest. The majority of the posts in this entire thread have been ridiculous, childish and insulting.

Posts that are going back and forth regarding which curriculum is the more difficult, who is studying harder, who is working harder, etc., is simply a waste of time. Maybe some of the medical students aren't working as hard because the material is coming easier to them. Maybe their courses are set up differently. Who knows and who cares. At the end of the day, they will have an MD degree or a DO degree and you will have a DPM degree no matter WHO worked harder, put in more hours, etc.

You have/had the opportunity to obtain that MD/DO degree, so if you believe the grass in greener on the other side, the answer is simple. However, in the interim, you can not bury your head in the sand and walk away from the facts (even though I AM a DPM).

And the FACTS will support that despite who you may perceive as working harder, having tougher classes, etc., the requirements at the present time to be accepted to MD schools in the U.S. are greater than DO schools which are greater than DPM schools. Don't even bother debating that issue, it's simply factual.

Making "fun" of the OMM course or comparing it to a course in massage is an insult to any DO. It would be no different than someone believing that your course in podiatric medicine was limited to nail cutting.

So end this senseless debate. If you are in podiatry school, work hard and worry about YOUR future and don't make comparisons with other medical professional students, because in reality, you aren't going to gain much ground. Don't try to impress others regarding your educational process by denigrating theirs.

Be happy with your career choice and don't worry about justifying it to anyone.
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who ever doesn't get this post should be rounded up for an MRI...or for me to sock in the face...lol....jut kidding :scared:
 
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