Natropathic skin care clinic

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How would 99% of the world be any wiser?? The 'about us' page has the words 'Dr' and 'received MEDICAL degree from x school of Nauropathic MEDICINE' BS smeared all over it. By the looks of it, they are doing a good business. Seems like a string of lawsuits waiting to happen.
 
How would 99% of the world be any wiser?? The 'about us' page has the words 'Dr' and 'received MEDICAL degree from x school of Nauropathic MEDICINE' BS smeared all over it. By the looks of it, they are doing a good business. Seems like a string of lawsuits waiting to happen.
this is a joke. "Prior to her career in aesthetics, Dr. O’Hara was in private practice as a family physician." Doesn't the term physician imply an MD or DO? WTF 😱😡
 
Arizona naturopaths have the most rights in any state in the US, where they can work as PCPs. However, they are working to expand their rights in other states as well. Although currently they work in capacities similar to PCPs, they are working to be a part of other specialties as well. Currently naturopaths are not required to do residencies, as there are very few 1-2 year residencies available - so it is optional at this time. However, I previously posted this... that they are planning to make residencies in other areas, such as dermatology, oncology, and pediatrics - since many people are looking for natural medicine specialists in these fields.

How do I know this? Because at one time I was considering naturopathic school, and this is what we were told at interview day orientation when the school admissions office was telling students about future job prospects. I probably would have gone for an ND (or NMD as some graduates refer to themselves), but the reason I backed off was because other graduates told me about the poor clinical rotations issues and the medicine not being evidence-based enough. They told me to do an MD or DO degree first, and then come back to ND school if I'm interested. I have also heard from current medical school students (MD/DO) who had PREVIOUSLY been naturopathic students, and even they said that their naturopathic medical coursework and licensing exams was much lesser quality (as they had to do both since MD/DO schools don't allow transfer credits from ND schools). But a lot of people are obviously not willing to get a conventional medical degree first, and thus are starting these sorts of practices with insufficient training. (Don't get me wrong, I think naturopaths have a LOT to offer, and I've always enjoyed my visits with them as a client. I'm glad they exist and offer this health niche, it's just that I dislike when they misrepresent themselves as full-fledged physicians, as their lack of clinical training is a major concern. After seeing firsthand the limitations, I honestly feel that naturopathic/integrative medicine would be much better as a fellowship for MD/DOs who already have the solid science/clinical background.) This is by no means isolated to the example above, but is a widespread issue. If you really want to do something about it, then take it to your state board and see what they think. Since I am a mere incoming medical student, and since I may consider taking some naturopathic coursework AFTER I complete medical school (unless I pursue an integrative fellowship for MD/DOs like what Dr. Weil's clinic offers)... I'm not going to take this up for obvious reasons, as that would be like shooting myself in the foot. But if practicing physicians take issue, then you should make an issue of it if you feel appropriate.

I have been watching integrative and natural medicine explode over the last several years, and have been telling medical students and physicians about it and how they should be getting into it themselves, instead of leaving complementary medicine to other groups like naturopaths and nurses to pursue... but nobody seems to pay attention, and then they get shocked when they see websites like this.
 
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Arizona naturopaths have the most rights in any state in the US, where they can work as PCPs. However, they are working to expand their rights in other states as well. Although currently they work in capacities similar to PCPs, they are working to be a part of other specialties as well. Currently naturopaths are not required to do residencies, as there are very few 1-2 year residencies available - so it is optional at this time. However, I previously posted this... that they are planning to make residencies in other areas, such as dermatology, oncology, and pediatrics - since many people are looking for natural medicine specialists in these fields.

How do I know this? Because at one time I was considering naturopathic school, and this is what we were told at interview day orientation when the school admissions office was telling students about future job prospects. I probably would have gone for an ND (or NMD as some graduates refer to themselves), but the reason I backed off was because other graduates told me about the poor clinical rotations issues and the medicine not being evidence-based enough. They told me to do an MD or DO degree first, and then come back to ND school if I'm interested. I have also heard from current medical school students (MD/DO) who had PREVIOUSLY been naturopathic students, and even they said that their naturopathic medical coursework and licensing exams was much lesser quality (as they had to do both since MD/DO schools don't allow transfer credits from ND schools). But a lot of people are obviously not willing to get a conventional medical degree first, and thus are starting these sorts of practices with insufficient training. (Don't get me wrong, I think naturopaths have a LOT to offer, and I've always enjoyed my visits with them as a client. I'm glad they exist and offer this health niche, it's just that I dislike when they misrepresent themselves as full-fledged physicians, as their lack of clinical training is a major concern. After seeing firsthand the limitations, I honestly feel that naturopathic/integrative medicine would be much better as a fellowship for MD/DOs who already have the solid science/clinical background.) This is by no means isolated to the example above, but is a widespread issue. If you really want to do something about it, then take it to your state board and see what they think. Since I am a mere incoming medical student, and since I may consider taking some naturopathic coursework AFTER I complete medical school (unless I pursue an integrative fellowship for MD/DOs like what Dr. Weil's clinic offers)... I'm not going to take this up for obvious reasons, as that would be like shooting myself in the foot. But if practicing physicians take issue, then you should make an issue of it if you feel appropriate.

I have been watching integrative and natural medicine explode over the last several years, and have been telling medical students and physicians about it and how they should be getting into it themselves, instead of leaving complementary medicine to other groups like naturopaths and nurses to pursue... but nobody seems to pay attention, and then they get shocked when they see websites like this.
😱 WOW! just WOW!!
 
Granola medicine appeals to lots of people who want to believe "natural is better." Even I have to admit the idea sounds nice. However, the reality is that it's unproven and potentially very dangerous.

The problems I see with these "natural doctors" practicing dermatology procedures are similar to the problems I see with nurses and medical doctors practicing them outside of their scope of training.

Admittedly, some of the procedures like Botox and fillers are relatively easy to do (but can be hard to do well!). But, when procedures go wrong... the practitioner should know how to deal with the complications. I think I mentioned in previous posts that some of the derms I know are refusing to deal with the scarring complications caused by cosmetic procedures done by FP's/OB's/Anesthesiologists/Dentists/etc.

Overall, the "scope of training" has never really been defined in the US. While specialties/professions can overlap, patients might benefit from a way to verify their practitioner's specialty and what their scope of practice is.

Or, perhaps we need a set of national guidelines on exactly what a practitioner can and can't do/treat.
 
this is a joke. "Prior to her career in aesthetics, Dr. O’Hara was in private practice as a family physician." Doesn't the term physician imply an MD or DO? WTF 😱😡

Does anyone know where people could take up this sort of complaint against naturopaths who are misrepresenting themselves... such as on this website? Would it go to the state medical board? Or does nothing get done in these instances?
 
Does anyone know where people could take up this sort of complaint against naturopaths who are misrepresenting themselves... such as on this website? Would it go to the state medical board? Or does nothing get done in these instances?

I think it gets filed into the 'welcome to the future of medicine' file. Seriously, with chiropractors calling themselves primary care physicians and doctors of chiropractic medicine, doctors of nurse practitioners, fighting for independent PA, NP, CRNA, rights, etc ... everyone wants a piece of the pie with doing 1/10000th of the work, so this ND bull**** is no shocker. I think 20 years from now, the fat backlash from all this crap + doctors finally no longer putting up with getting paid like they work at the DMV will change things ... until then, good luck with beurocrats doing anything to fix the problem. It's the patients that will suffer worse in the end.
 
I think it gets filed into the 'welcome to the future of medicine' file. Seriously, with chiropractors calling themselves primary care physicians and doctors of chiropractic medicine, doctors of nurse practitioners, fighting for independent PA, NP, CRNA, rights, etc ... everyone wants a piece of the pie with doing 1/10000th of the work, so this ND bull**** is no shocker. I think 20 years from now, the fat backlash from all this crap + doctors finally no longer putting up with getting paid like they work at the DMV will change things ... until then, good luck with beurocrats doing anything to fix the problem. It's the patients that will suffer worse in the end.

Where is the "Like this" link?
 
What is the American Dermatology Association doing to stop this?

Or are they continuing to just bend over and let this happen as usual?
 
What is the American Dermatology Association doing to stop this?

Or are they continuing to just bend over and let this happen as usual?

Dermatologists are not hurting for business. When it hurts the bottom line then they'll take action.
 
thats gotta be the most ******est thing i've ever seen.

they do NOT deserve to be called doctors.

what kinda degree do they have? an N.O.? wtf
 
wow, if people only knew the level of training that a true blue dermatologist has vs. what one of these quacks has, they'd be astounded. This is truly criminal. Oh, it makes me hurt in the pit of my stomach. It cheapens so much the hard work that we put in, and it also potentially puts people at risk for botched procedures and greater pathology. I guess we can rest assured that these patients will eventually end up in one of our clinics after these quacks screw them up enough.
 
thats gotta be the most ******est thing i've ever seen.

they do NOT deserve to be called doctors.

what kinda degree do they have? an N.O.? wtf

It's an N.D. degree. I have a friend who went to N.D. school. I pleaded and begged her to reconsider, but she was quacky enough to go for it.
 
It's an N.D. degree. I have a friend who went to N.D. school. I pleaded and begged her to reconsider, but she was quacky enough to go for it.

i was just joking about the "N.O" degree. just thought it would be funny.

i think its stupid that its an N.D. cuz what if people misread it as MD or think that its just a typo.

this seriously is ridiculous. all these unqualified ppl playing doctor.
 
forget the dermatologist part, how can these women call themselves doctors,
arent they naturopaths, that is a far cry from a doctor, unless they have their phd or something

this is a travashamockery

how can this stand so illegitimately and why is nothing being done to correct this perversion of false advertising
 
Technically they are doctors...doctors of naturopathy. Wiki refers to them as physicians, as well. Also, if you google Oregon and Naturopaths, you will find that they soon will be able to prescribe regular meds, like antibiotics, etc. Unfortunately, though, an unsuspecting person would not realize that they are not MD dermatologists, which is sad.
 
Maybe these naturopaths have found a coveted backdoor to derm. Derm better shut that door fast before this gets out of hand.
 
No dermatologist worth his or her salt is losing sleep over this "competition"

And this a good thing? It sounds more like an example of leadership being asleep at the wheels. See the anesthesiologist and CRNA issue.

When a problem creeps up, you smash it into oblivion when it's small not when it's huge and got a powerful lobbying group.

The point that the naturopaths and the NP's/PA's who do cosmetics make is that you don't need to go to med school/residency/fellowship to do it. Then it's a slippery slope from there as they try to increase their scope.
 
i guess there's no choice but to exterminate them. i'll get the first brigade together. we leave at nightfall. who's with me!?? i'm gonna smear aldara in their eyes and make them admit they can't wield juvederm as good as me.
 
And this a good thing? It sounds more like an example of leadership being asleep at the wheels. See the anesthesiologist and CRNA issue.

When a problem creeps up, you smash it into oblivion when it's small not when it's huge and got a powerful lobbying group.

The point that the naturopaths and the NP's/PA's who do cosmetics make is that you don't need to go to med school/residency/fellowship to do it. Then it's a slippery slope from there as they try to increase their scope.

I just don't see it that way.

There are dermatologists out there who avoid cosmetics like the plague and would gladly let others step in so that they can practice "real medicine". They certainly won't be the ones to step up and put a stop to it.

And then there dermatologists who've already grabbed their piece of the cosmetics pie. They can offer services a non-dermatologist simply can't. That is, comprehensive skin care extending beyond cosmetic work.

And let's face it, in this economy, if you can still afford cosmetic work, you're probably not bargain shopping at the naturopaths or the NP/PAs. Which is really the only advantage they can offer over a dermatologist.

Now I'm unaware of what the situation is like in a place like Beverly Hills, but in my suburban town, the limited amount of cosmetics work that's done is not completed by naturopaths or solo practicing NPs/PAs. It's just not an urgent problem that requires "smashing"

(although I do see your point about it being a slippery slope)
 
One of the biggest attractions for med students into derm is that it is one of the very few specialties that can be cash-based, ie, cosmetics. So if the govt screws doctors over reimbursements, ie, 50% cut for Mohs surgery, you could always fall back on that. If you take away cosmetics, then derm doesn't look that safe compared to any other specialty.
 
I'd be worried if they were doing neurosurgery. Popping pimples, pfff? Naturopathic "doctors" are more than qualified for doing that.
 
though I am still somewhat of a novice at this derm game, i have spent a couple hundred hours in the derm clinic, and not once have I seen a derm doc pop a pimple.
 
Yeah I was in private clinic a few weeks ago. In a normal day of 35 or so patients, we saw maybe 3 acne cases and maybe 2 or 3 each of psoriasis and eczema. The bread and butter cases are mole checks mainly.

As far as the thread issue, I guess more stringent licensing procedures need to be put in place. I think that would be a decent way to get at the problem and nip it in the bud.
 
And this a good thing? It sounds more like an example of leadership being asleep at the wheels. See the anesthesiologist and CRNA issue.

When a problem creeps up, you smash it into oblivion when it's small not when it's huge and got a powerful lobbying group.

The point that the naturopaths and the NP's/PA's who do cosmetics make is that you don't need to go to med school/residency/fellowship to do it. Then it's a slippery slope from there as they try to increase their scope.
👍 well said. The derm higher ups better get on the ball and shut this down.
 
though I am still somewhat of a novice at this derm game, i have spent a couple hundred hours in the derm clinic, and not once have I seen a derm doc pop a pimple.

I have and I only have 2 weeks of experience. It wasn't brain surgery but pretty disgusting.

No we typically spend time lecturing patients on NOT popping their pimples.

A naturopathic doctor could easily do that for $50k/year.
 
I'd be worried if they were doing neurosurgery. Popping pimples, pfff? Naturopathic "doctors" are more than qualified for doing that.

I'm a derm resident and have never popped a pimple on a patient. I've popped my own pimples though.
 
Fortunately, real dermatologists come equipped with more skills than that. Hopefully something u picked up on during a two wk rotation

:eyeroll:
so why are your knickers in a twist over naturopathic doctors popping pimples?

I'm a derm resident and have never popped a pimple on a patient. I've popped my own pimples though.
Is your point that it was wrong by "my" attending to pop the golfball size pimple?
 
Is your point that it was wrong by "my" attending to pop the golfball size pimple?

My point is I don't pop pimples, I've let my nurse extract milia. Something golfball size is not a pimple. I've I&D absecesses golf ball sized and excised epi cyst golfball size.

Sounds like your attending did something like this, which we don't recommend because without taking out the sac/lining it would just reoccur.

[YOUTUBE]ffMHLCzXlKs[/YOUTUBE]
 
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Technically they are doctors...doctors of naturopathy. Wiki refers to them as physicians, as well. Also, if you google Oregon and Naturopaths, you will find that they soon will be able to prescribe regular meds, like antibiotics, etc. Unfortunately, though, an unsuspecting person would not realize that they are not MD dermatologists, which is sad.
added this to wiki :"Therefore, naturopaths are not real doctors that can actually save your life."
 
hmmm, the last post seems somewhat petty. though i am not a huge fan of naturopathic medicine, because much of it is not rooted in hard science, i'm not sure a sweeping generalization like the above post is appropriate or accurate. it just seems like bitterness. there's got to be a better way to address this "issue"
 
hmmm, the last post seems somewhat petty. though i am not a huge fan of naturopathic medicine, because much of it is not rooted in hard science, i'm not sure a sweeping generalization like the above post is appropriate or accurate. it just seems like bitterness. there's got to be a better way to address this "issue"
Sure... that was pettiness. I guess it could be because I'm a little pissed off that I'm noting a rise in people that want 'natural' care, forgetting that those were the type of treatments that exists before the scientific method, a time were people died and were hoping for a 'cure' and with the advent of actual drugs we are now going to go backwards. We are going from "eat this root--->take this drug---> to eat this root"? Seriously. This is like that mother in the news less than a year ago that refused to have her son's cancer treated, wanting 'god' and an 'alternative' medical tx. So if you mean that I'm frustrated by using the word bitterness, then yes. Because addressing this issue is coming down to a cold hard slap to knock some sense into people. And when they select an alternative path and **** hits the fan, then there should be no obligation to fix it, but damn it, we are forced to carry that responsibility in this society... b/c we are MDs, when people start asking questions it somehow all comes back on our asses.
 
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