Will Trump win again???

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pgg said:
I'll also say, just for the record, that Bernie's idea of paying off all student loans fills me with rage. Not that I don't think tuition and loans and higher education costs are ridiculous, but all the people who did work study, took years off to work so they could pay tuition, everyone who joined the military for the GI Bill, everyone who settled for two years of community college before transferring to the U to save money, all of those responsible people who sacrificed to avoid debt, all the kids with parents who sacrificed and saved to send their kids to school, they get nothing. They would riot in the street, and I would probably join them.
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There is general consensus that the student debt is holding everyone back including the most important thing. "The economy"
 
pgg said:
If the point is a handout to stimulate the economy (which sure doesn't appear to need stimulating right now) it's stupid to give it to the people best positioned to work and produce in the first place (those with college degrees). Give it out to the unemployed with no prospects. High school dropouts, felons, the mentally ill, lazy people, anybody but the one cohort of people who are gonna go out and work for a living anyway.

It's stupid. Fix the problem of out of control tuition enabled by dumb lending rules. Don't just wipe the slate, and give the finger to every Marine soldier sailor airman who spent time in the middle east to earn the GI Bill, every kid who did work study, every parent who saved.

I have my 3rd and youngest kid starting college in a couple months. Instead of paying her tuition and living expenses maybe I should tell her to borrow the max because Bernie will pay it off for her. Worst case, I'll pay the loans off for her.

Bernie is dumber than that person who said (admittedly quoted out of context) she was so happy Obama was going to pay her mortgage. I don't think he's cynical enough to lie outright about it, so he must be simply senile.
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Listen, nothing makes sense.
We have drinking age of 21 but at 18 you can go to war.
They want to raise the smoking age to 21.
Why not make it 50?
Nurses are being given independence.
ITs all stupid, and so are the politicians.
WIping the slate clean is no different from that.
The only thing that it will do is help the economy.
Only 30% of jobs need a college education anyway.
D7YOk_wWsAY-a7u.jpg
 
okayplayer said:
How about: you signed on the dotted line for your loans and now you need to repay the money (with interest) as you agreed to? Also a garbage argument?
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If student loans were like any other type of loan it wouldn't be, but they aren't. In no other case can an 18 year old take on such a huge amount of debt while also being unable to declare bankruptcy. As a result we now have over a trillion dollars in unpaid debt, millions of people in default, and people actually fleeing the country because they cannot cope with the burden. How is that good for the economy?

RadsWFA1900 said:
Meh. I mean somebody’s gonna pay for that and that generally means people with funds. And some of those people not only had to pay off their own debts which probably put a kink in their own plans but now there gonna be on the hook for others. It’s not like there gonna get a rebate in the mail. So I’m not really surprised people aren’t crazy about making your life easier.

The funding for it isn’t gonna come from taxing “Wall Street greed” or taxes on rampant speculation. It’ll be coming out of the pockets of anybody that works for a salary. So the people that paid will be getting whacked twice.
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I'm not sure what you mean by "funding isn't going to come from taxing Wall Street." That's literally what the plan is and similar things have been done in other countries. You might not get a mail-in-rebate but you will get more money in circulation due to the people who are further able to participate in the economy.
 
sebass said:
If student loans were like any other type of loan it wouldn't be, but they aren't. In no other case can an 18 year old take on such a huge amount of debt while also being unable to declare bankruptcy. As a result we now have over a trillion dollars in unpaid debt, millions of people in default, and people actually fleeing the country because they cannot cope with the burden. How is that good for the economy?



I'm not sure what you mean by "funding isn't going to come from taxing Wall Street." That's literally what the plan is and similar things have been done in other countries. You might not get a mail-in-rebate but you will get more money in circulation due to the people who are further able to participate in the economy.
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I know it is that’s why I specifically mentioned it.

I am trying to illustrate is that proposing programs like that and then telling individuals that it will paid for by large impersonal private entities is well worn and unrealistic. It will be funded by everyday working people of all income strata who do not own businesses or have significant capital to their names.

In terms of participating in the economy, you are already doing so just maybe not the way you think you should.

I am not really sure about this more money in circulation. If you mean this allows you to have more money in your pocket and people in your situation can spend more then that’s wonderful but it does not mean the general economy or more importantly the rest of the general public. As much you don’t like your creditors and think they should be told to go screw. The bill will be paid by someone and those bills will continue to escalate as costs of education continue to rise.

I feel sorry for the people who are in this scenario who cannot get ahead of their debt, but the argument coming from students especially in medicine as to why their debt should be forgiven is an especially a weak one.
 
GravelRider said:
The only one who has any chance of beating Trump is the woman who reminds me of my weird aunt who used to have a few too many glasses of wine and would hit on my college friends. She’s pretty awesome and I liked how her campaign platform is sticking it to New Zealand.
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Strangely I want to vote for this woman. Tell me more...
 
Dude it was a strange 2016. 2020 and 2024 could be even stranger. Trump definitely does not have this in the bag and I’ll be surprised if the future is any more certain in the next 18 months.
 
RadsWFA1900 said:
I am trying to illustrate is that proposing programs like that and then telling individuals that it will paid for by large impersonal private entities is well worn and unrealistic. It will be funded by everyday working people of all income strata who do not own businesses or have significant capital to their names.
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Where are you even getting this from? How is imposing taxes on stock trades unrealistic? We already know it works because other countries are doing it.

RadsWFA1900 said:
I am not really sure about this more money in circulation. If you mean this allows you to have more money in your pocket and people in your situation can spend more then that’s wonderful but it does not mean the general economy or more importantly the rest of the general public.
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Except that's exactly what would happen. A trillion+ dollars that would eventually be able to go towards goods/services, investments, real estate, etc. And these are just the economic benefits we're talking about.
 
GravelRider said:
Is that what we told the banks and a company that makes terrible cars when we bailed them out of their bad decision-making?
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That wasn't right either.

Economists will argue for another 50 years whether or not it was "necessary" to avoid a larger collapse, but if that made you angry, this should too.
 
leaverus said:
who do you see beating him? if hilary were to run again she would easily get the nomination over any of the other 25+ jokers currently in the running and even she couldn't beat him. no, it'll be trump for another 4
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No idea.

We're a year and a half out still. Nobody knows nothing.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if 6 months from now President Trump tweeted "eh, I'm gonna go play golf, you guys figure it out" and walked off into the sunset.
 
PieOHmy said:
Listen, nothing makes sense.
We have drinking age of 21 but at 18 you can go to war.
They want to raise the smoking age to 21.
Why not make it 50?
Nurses are being given independence.
ITs all stupid, and so are the politicians.
WIping the slate clean is no different from that.
The only thing that it will do is help the economy.
Only 30% of jobs need a college education anyway.
D7YOk_wWsAY-a7u.jpg
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So your argument is that we do other stupid things, so we should do this stupid thing too? That's stupid.


The only reform student loans need is to make the debt dischargeable in bankruptcy.

That gives the people who are genuinely crippled and in over their head an out (albeit with some consequences) and it'll force the lenders to quit giving so much credit to so many high risk people. Problem solved.
 
pgg said:
So your argument is that we do other stupid things, so we should do this stupid thing too? That's stupid.


The only reform student loans need is to make the debt dischargeable in bankruptcy.

That gives the people who are genuinely crippled and in over their head an out (albeit with some consequences) and it'll force the lenders to quit giving so much credit to so many high risk people. Problem solved.
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No I am saying any policy doesnt benefit 100 percent of the people all the time. There are losers in many policies. It's a balancing act. Throw in political favors, cronyism, lobbying you have a system that does not make sense. Here forgiving student loans will benefit society in general. Sure it would offend those who did everything right etc etc etc. But oh well.. The economy may grow by over 100 percent in the next ten years because of it. They will get over it.
By the way, those doing the lending are not "saints" as you probably know.
 
PieOHmy said:
No I am saying any policy doesnt benefit 100 percent of the people all the time. There are losers in many policies. It's a balancing act. Throw in political favors, cronyism, lobbying you have a system that does not make sense. Here forgiving student loans will benefit society in general. Sure it would offend those who did everything right etc etc etc. But oh well.. The economy may grow by over 100 percent in the next ten years because of it. They will get over it.
By the way, those doing the lending are not "saints" as you probably know.
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So would forgiving all mortgage debt "benefit society in general" too?

How about just car loans?

Credit cards? There was a documentary about that:

images
 
pgg said:
If the point is a handout to stimulate the economy (which sure doesn't appear to need stimulating right now) it's stupid to give it to the people best positioned to work and produce in the first place (those with college degrees). Give it out to the unemployed with no prospects. High school dropouts, felons, the mentally ill, lazy people, anybody but the one cohort of people who are gonna go out and work for a living anyway.

It's stupid. Fix the problem of out of control tuition enabled by dumb lending rules. Don't just wipe the slate, and give the finger to every Marine soldier sailor airman who spent time in the middle east to earn the GI Bill, every kid who did work study, every parent who saved.

I have my 3rd and youngest kid starting college in a couple months. Instead of paying her tuition and living expenses maybe I should tell her to borrow the max because Bernie will pay it off for her. Worst case, I'll pay the loans off for her.

Bernie is dumber than that person who said (admittedly quoted out of context) she was so happy Obama was going to pay her mortgage. I don't think he's cynical enough to lie outright about it, so he must be simply senile.
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As someone who joined like yourself to pay loans and keep tuition costs minimal. I disagree. Imagine who you would serve with if the .mil had to pay physicians fair market value day 1. Imagine people serving because they want to not because they could not get student loans. It hurts and we have paid thousands of dollars. But in the end we pay for a better educational system. I still would have served. Im sure then the military would have to do more to entice physicians. I like the idea of paying off alk educational debt.
 
radsisrad said:
Obama's campaign was pretty left-wing, and even the positions he espoused on immigration would be booed off the stage in 2019's Democratic Party.

Something is seriously awry on the American Left.
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Something is seriously awry on both the American Left and Right. This is historically when countries are at highest risk of sliding into dictatorships.
 
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FFP said:
Something is seriously awry on both the American Left and Right. This is historically when countries are at highest risk of sliding into dictatorships.
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That something is this “winner take all and no compromises” mentality that has plagued our politics for decades. The news-as-entertainment culture has turned politics into a sporting event where you choose a team and cheer for only your team to win. Because it has become this team event, you can slide further to the left or to the right because the most important people in terms of voting have already chosen a side. You just have to make sure you get that side excited enough to show up on Election Day. “Moderates” and “undecideds” make up a smaller and smaller portion of our electorate with every passing year.
 
GravelRider said:
That something is this “winner take all and no compromises” mentality that has plagued our politics for decades. The news-as-entertainment culture has turned politics into a sporting event where you choose a team and cheer for only your team to win. Because it has become this team event, you can slide further to the left or to the right because the most important people in terms of voting have already chosen a side. You just have to make sure you get that side excited enough to show up on Election Day. “Moderates” and “undecideds” make up a smaller and smaller portion of our electorate with every passing year.
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That used to be my sensation, too. But then all the polls still show that moderates dominate among American voters. Trump won the last elections exactly by tilting the balance among undecided moderates (with the help of the Russians and Comey).

Even the average Democratic primary voter is much more moderate than most of the leftists on the screen.

We think that the center has disappeared because the extremes are much-much noisier, and bullying (especially online and in the media). Gods forbid you contradict a white nationalist or a "woke" socialist. The public discourse has become much more primitive than it used to be traditionally in America. Look at Trump (4th grade vocabulary) or at the Democratic candidates; both sides are full of crap conspiracy theories for stupid people, to appeal to the visceral not the rational.

We have gotten to the point where it's not OK even to politely disagree with one's beliefs or opinions. It's like 1984, on both sides, just with different brands of brainwash shampoo.
 
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FFP said:
That used to be my sensation, too. But then all the polls still show that moderates dominate among American voters. Trump won the last elections exactly by tilting the balance among moderates (with the help of the Russians and Comey).

Even the average Democratic primary voter is much more moderate than most of the leftists on the screen.

We think that the center has disappeared because the extremes are much-much noisier, and bullying. Gods forbid you contradict a white nationalist or a "woke" person. The public discourse has become much more primitive than it used to be traditionally in America.
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100% agree. The democrats are idiots - they think policies of “free” everything for everyone (even illegals) and open borders appeal to a large proportion of the country? Reparations? Seriously? Who are they talking to?

All they had to do was nominate a well-spoken moderate democrat under 75 years old with reasonable economic policies and it would be a landslide.

I hate Trump. I hate him- he’s one of the worst presidents ever and a d-bag to boot. But guess I’ll be voting for him come 2020 due to magical unicorn thinking on the left.
 
CheGuevaraMD said:
[...]
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I just thought I'd let you know, in case you live in some kind of naive bubble as opposed to the maliciously evil zone other Che fans reside in, that your username alone is enough to make me discount your opinions and dislike you personally.
 
If everyone between the ages of 18-25 gets a “free” college education, then what is the incentive for them (who maybe aren’t “college material”) to get a job or learn a trade?? Hell, just go party for 4-6 years on the taxpayer dime, amiright??

You’ll effectively have a 1/3rd of the country doing nothing on one end (0-25 years), another 1/3rd doing nothing (65 plus), and the 26-64 year olds who actually have a job paying for all of it.

The government is handing out loans with no price controls, there’s no incentive for schools to cut costs, and no incentive for students to get degrees that actually allow them to make enough money to pay them off.

Tell the government you want a $200k loan for a philosophy or literature degree, and they hand you the money. Tell a bank you want $200k to start a BUSINESS in something equally as stupid, and they’ll tell you to take a hike....
 
FFP said:
That used to be my sensation, too. But then all the polls still show that moderates dominate among American voters. Trump won the last elections exactly by tilting the balance among undecided moderates (with the help of the Russians and Comey).

Even the average Democratic primary voter is much more moderate than most of the leftists on the screen.

We think that the center has disappeared because the extremes are much-much noisier, and bullying (especially online and in the media). Gods forbid you contradict a white nationalist or a "woke" socialist. The public discourse has become much more primitive than it used to be traditionally in America. Look at Trump (4th grade vocabulary) or at the Democratic candidates; both sides are full of crap conspiracy theories for stupid people, to appeal to the visceral not the rational.

We have gotten to the point where it's not OK even to politely disagree with one's beliefs or opinions. It's like 1984, on both sides, just with different brands of brainwash shampoo.
Click to expand...

People may call themselves moderates or tell pollsters that they are undecided, but the reality is that everyone has already chosen a side. The elections are less about convincing an undecided person that they are the best candidate and more about getting your team excited enough to go out and vote. If moderation was the winning formula then you wouldn’t see Trumpism and now the Democratic version of Trumpism.

The few moderates or centrists out there end up voting for third party candidates.
 
PieOHmy said:
There is general consensus that the student debt is holding everyone back including the most important thing. "The economy"
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Actually, "debt" as a whole is what may be holding back the economy. Nothing specifically differentiates student loan from any other kind of loan in terms of aggregate demand.

One of the more perceptive economists in my opinion, Steve Keen, has formulated convincing models showing that it is the acceleration and deceleration of private sector debt which associate closely with recessions and booms.

Therefore, if one is going to take the position that debt in general is preventing growth, then massive fiscal stimulus as a whole (as supported by modern monetary theorists) would be the logical conclusion. Other than the lack of bankruptcy options, there's really no reason to think student debt to be more of a limitation from a macroeconomic standpoint than any other debt. If one were to propose allowing bankruptcy from student loans, I think everyone here would be supportive.
 
DirtDocMD said:
If everyone between the ages of 18-25 gets a “free” college education, then what is the incentive for them (who maybe aren’t “college material”) to get a job or learn a trade?? Hell, just go party for 4-6 years on the taxpayer dime, amiright??

You’ll effectively have a 1/3rd of the country doing nothing on one end (0-25 years), another 1/3rd doing nothing (65 plus), and the 26-64 year olds who actually have a job paying for all of it.

The government is handing out loans with no price controls, there’s no incentive for schools to cut costs, and no incentive for students to get degrees that actually allow them to make enough money to pay them off.

Tell the government you want a $200k loan for a philosophy or literature degree, and they hand you the money. Tell a bank you want $200k to start a BUSINESS in something equally as stupid, and they’ll tell you to take a hike....
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Youre trying to make sense with things that DONT MAKE SENSE.
I told you earlier kids who go to war cannot drink legally in USA or rent a car.
Why should anything surrounding student debt be different.
There are a S**t ton of people getting filthy rich with each student loan. Thats why they're given out so freely. They dont suffer when everyone goes into default. They got theirs.

Im all for the elimination college loans period. Only financial aid for those in need. Watch the costs plummett..
 
GravelRider said:
People may call themselves moderates or tell pollsters that they are undecided, but the reality is that everyone has already chosen a side. The elections are less about convincing an undecided person that they are the best candidate and more about getting your team excited enough to go out and vote. If moderation was the winning formula then you wouldn’t see Trumpism and now the Democratic version of Trumpism.

The few moderates or centrists out there end up voting for third party candidates.
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I disagree. I think a large proportion of the country is still moderate and does not "make up their mind" until closer to the election.

That being said, it's impossible in today's politics to get the party nomination without saying raging lunatic fringe stuff. So either you make yourself a liar and do a 180, or really believe in some of that stuff.

So we get 2 fringe people running against each other in the end.... and the majority of the voters need to choose the lesser evil while holding their noses.

We hear about all these people that will vote Trump "no matter what" and others that will vote for "anyone but him." I personally know very few in either of these groups. Most people say some variation of "Trump is terrible.... but I hope the dems don't nominate someone who's gone off the deep end and force me to vote for him"
 
PieOHmy said:
There are a S**t ton of people getting filthy rich with each student loan. Thats why they're given out so freely. They dont suffer when everyone goes into default. They got theirs.
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Yep. They are called universities (and their executives). Banks don't get "filthy rich" from student loans. Even at 7%, it's just 3% above inflation, and that has to cover costs, too.
 
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PieOHmy said:
Youre trying to make sense with things that DONT MAKE SENSE.
I told you earlier kids who go to war cannot drink legally in USA or rent a car.
Why should anything surrounding student debt be different.
There are a S**t ton of people getting filthy rich with each student loan. Thats why they're given out so freely. They dont suffer when everyone goes into default. They got theirs.

Im all for the elimination college loans period. Only financial aid for those in need. Watch the costs plummett..
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If your argument is that aggregate debt hinders economic growth, then I agree. If your argument is that debt jubilee for only student debt is somehow more of a stimulus for the economy than any other form of fiscal stimulus, then I would like to see the evidence.

If debt relief for student debt somehow creates a disproportionately high rate of growth in the economy, then it would at least be a conversation starter. Otherwise, all you’re doing is handing privilege to a specific group in society at the expense of others.
 
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DirtDocMD said:
If everyone between the ages of 18-25 gets a “free” college education, then what is the incentive for them (who maybe aren’t “college material”) to get a job or learn a trade?? Hell, just go party for 4-6 years on the taxpayer dime, amiright??

You’ll effectively have a 1/3rd of the country doing nothing on one end (0-25 years), another 1/3rd doing nothing (65 plus), and the 26-64 year olds who actually have a job paying for all of it.

The government is handing out loans with no price controls, there’s no incentive for schools to cut costs, and no incentive for students to get degrees that actually allow them to make enough money to pay them off.

Tell the government you want a $200k loan for a philosophy or literature degree, and they hand you the money. Tell a bank you want $200k to start a BUSINESS in something equally as stupid, and they’ll tell you to take a hike....
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I understand your frustration but your lack of appreciation for the liberal propaganda fed to naive youth in this country under the guise of philosophy and English book reports is frankly sickening. I mean, where would any of us be without the myth of Sisyphus or the block of Swiss cheese that was Plato's logic in our lives? How can any of us claim to be cultured and well-rounded without having read The Perks of Being a Wallflower?

You say philosophy majors are stupid but they serve a very important role. They go on to become philosophy PhDs and thus help perpetuate the idea that Nietzsche was anything but a demented syphilitic old coot to a whole new generation, thus continuing the cycle of who gives a ****.

And as for literature degrees? I'll have you know my sister-in-law is an English major and now works 3 jobs teaching English to Chinese people for pennies on the dollar so that 10 years from now they'll be ready to come over here and put us all out of our misery. All this while barely being able to afford health insurance. If that's not the American dream then I don't know what is.
 
i think trump will win again... not a fan of trump. but i can also see how democrats can significantly cut physician salaries if they win.. also bernie sanders says he wants to raise taxes.. so in setting of decrease salary + increase tax , physicians are looking to lose a lot if he wins.. i like the guy otherwise though..
 
Dictatorships, historically, have been extremely beneficial if the dictator is superb. The ancient Greeks recognized rightly that the common populace were not educated nor enlightened enough to pick the best leader. They thumbed their noses at this concept of democracy. I don't mind an enlightened dictator. Unfortunately, they're nowhere to be found.
 
Shufflin said:
Dictatorships, historically, have been extremely beneficial if the dictator is superb. The ancient Greeks recognized rightly that the common populace were not educated nor enlightened enough to pick the best leader. They thumbed their noses at this concept of democracy. I don't mind an enlightened dictator. Unfortunately, they're nowhere to be found.
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I don't know what an enlightened dictator is, but I think people in some countries would be okay living in a dictatorship if the economy is strong and unemployment is low.
 
GravelRider said:
If moderation was the winning formula then you wouldn’t see Trumpism and now the Democratic version of Trumpism.
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I dunno about that. Trump's policies are moderate. They might seem otherwise, coming as they do from a bombast, but the whole frame of reference has changed - especially with Democrats' embrace of illegal aliens for the purpose of creating a permanent electoral supermajority.
 
bronx43 said:
Otherwise, all you’re doing is handing privilege to a specific group in society at the expense of others.
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Which is human nature (i.e. the worst thing in Nature).

AFAIK, no country has had the guts/spine to put in its constitution that the State cannot favor any citizen, or group of citizens, more than any other, directly or indirectly. Because anything else is a form of some -ism.
 
doctalaughs said:
100% agree. The democrats are idiots - they think policies of “free” everything for everyone (even illegals) and open borders appeal to a large proportion of the country? Reparations? Seriously? Who are they talking to?

All they had to do was nominate a well-spoken moderate democrat under 75 years old with reasonable economic policies and it would be a landslide.

I hate Trump. I hate him- he’s one of the worst presidents ever and a d-bag to boot. But guess I’ll be voting for him come 2020 due to magical unicorn thinking on the left.
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This is basically the Dems attempting to pull off the same thing republicans did in 16. Lots of candidates with the illusion of choice. But instead of a supposed radical right wing agenda This go around we will be listening to the polar opposite with a left wing agenda. The only thing missing this time was Bernie quoting Das Kapital on stage.
 

John Delaney – Entrepreneur, Business Leader, and Public Servant.

www.johndelaney.com www.johndelaney.com

www.cnbc.com

Ex-Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz weighs independent bid for presidency, denounces 'revenge politics'

The coffee impresario denounced both President Donald Trump and the "revenge politics" that has resulted in a polarized electorate.
www.cnbc.com www.cnbc.com


These are the best of the Democrats in terms of representing the moderate electorate. But, Schultz isn't actually running for President yet and John Delaney is too centrist to garner enough primary votes.

So, despite my dislike of Trump I will be voting for him in 2020. The best of the worst in terms of policies is Donald Trump.

Howard Schultz would be the answer to Donald Trump in 2020 in terms of putting a Billionaire with good sense in the White House.
 
RadsWFA1900 said:
This is basically the Dems attempting to pull off the same thing republicans did in 16. Lots of candidates with the illusion of choice. But instead of a supposed radical right wing agenda This go around we will be listening to the polar opposite with a left wing agenda. The only thing missing this time was Bernie quoting Das Kapital on stage.
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The Republicans have turned into a theocratic, anti-science party that panders to their “Christian” base while playing white identity politics. I’m willing to pay a little extra in taxes if it gets the religious nonsense out of our government.
 
GravelRider said:
The Republicans have turned into a theocratic, anti-science party that panders to their “Christian” base while playing white identity politics. I’m willing to pay a little extra in taxes if it gets the religious nonsense out of our government.
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That is a winning strategy when large swaths of the country are not only scientifically illiterate but are also more skeptical about science than they are about religion.
 
nimbus said:
That is a winning strategy when large swaths of the country are not only scientifically illiterate but are also more skeptical about science than they are about religion.
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If they were skeptical about religion they’d be atheists and Republican dreams of theocracy wouldn’t be an issue. They actively avoid becoming scientifically literate critical thinkers because that’s such a threat to the fantasy world they live in.
 
lakersbaby said:
how many illegals are going to sign up for free healthcare and give their information to a government source? i don't see any of them jumping to sign up for this out of fear of deportation. How then could we provide this magical free insurance?
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Except for the fact that most of the candidates that want free healthcare for illegals are the same candidates who want to abolish ICE, halt deportations by making the entire country a sanctuary state, and demolish the border fence to extend an implied free invitation to the entirety of the third world. Literally free health care at tax payer expense to all of Latin America if you can make it across Mexico. It's pure virtue signalling based wholly on emotional pandering and completely devoid of all logic or forethought of economic viability.

Trump is far from perfect (especially in his communication skills and interactions with the public) but the country is doing extremely well right now, and that includes people of all socioeconomic classes compared to pre-Trump. The main thing that continues to be a struggle without much improvement is unchecked illegal immigration and most of that could be chalked up to the fact that the democrats are blocking Trump from doing anything at all at the border and States like California are only fortifying their sanctuary policies to spite Trump.

Probably the most relevant Trump quote: "We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented, unchecked, and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently, and lawfully to become immigrants in this country." Just kidding, that is actually a Barrack Obama quote from 2005. Hilarious that the DNC has moved so far left on immigration just to spite Trump that even Obama's previous views would now be considered far-right and highly racist. Almost anything that would stem illegal border crossings in any way the dems are fighting tooth and nail to prevent. Perplexing to see an entire faction of the federal government work so vigorously to remove or prevent all deterrents and potential repercussions, then offer incentives like free health care for aliens to willfully violate federal laws.
 
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GravelRider said:
The Republicans have turned into a theocratic, anti-science party that panders to their “Christian” base while playing white identity politics. I’m willing to pay a little extra in taxes if it gets the religious nonsense out of our government.
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Dude... Julian Castro just called (to loud applause) for the "right to choose" for a "trans woman." And Vermont is changing its Medicaid rules so "transgender" children - children - will have access to "gender-affirming" surgeries.

Left-wing sexual politics isn't merely anti-science; it's medical malpractice.
 
lakersbaby said:
how many illegals are going to sign up for free healthcare and give their information to a government source? i don't see any of them jumping to sign up for this out of fear of deportation. How then could we provide this magical free insurance?
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Left-wingers were sure counting on illegals putting their names on government documents when they vociferously (and successfully) protested the proposal to include the entirely-reasonable citizenship question on the upcoming census.
 
radsisrad said:
Dude... Julian Castro just called (to loud applause) for the "right to choose" for a "trans woman." And Vermont is changing its Medicaid rules so "transgender" children - children - will have access to "gender-affirming" surgeries.

Left-wing sexual politics isn't merely anti-science; it's medical malpractice.
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I don’t understand why the transgender thing gets so much press. The numbers I’ve seen are anywhere from 0.005% to a high of 0.3% of the population have some inclination towards switching gender. Not a high number and certainly not something I will ever devote any time to thinking about or talking about.

The idea that the Republicans are “moderate” is just not correct. They are embracing the religious right and white identity politics more and more with every election. Now I don’t believe many politicians actually believe in Judeo-Christian morality, it is just a political rallying cry to get people to support other things they wouldn’t otherwise support.
 
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